Honesty and the Navy-Medical/ADD/ADHD and other full disclosure issues PRIOR to taking the oath

[Angie F.- WA: HM mom]

Hi ladies, our brief discussion on this Group about this subject was so good and informative that I decided to make it a permanent discussion. I've done a cut and paste below of all the moms original replies and posts so that future DEPPERS and experienced moms can also benefit and contribute. Let's save our DEPPERs from being pressured to lie and omit by dishonest, pushy Recruiters and then having their dreams come crashing down later at the BC "Moment of Truth! Honesty really is the best policy here!! :-)

By the way, I DO recognize that there are plenty of good recruiters out there who do not follow this practice and do a good job getting our Recruits started on their journey. =)

FYI:Here is the Dept. Of Defenses' Medical Examination Review Boards' Disqualification code list to give everyone an idea of what they will be looking for honesty- and can request further information and records-about:

https://dodmerb.tricare.osd.mil/MiscMenuItems/disqualcodes.asp

Here's another link and excerpt from a post by Achseh about fraudulent enlistment in Hoppi's Enlistment Standards discussion featured on N4Ms main page:


http://usmilitary.about.com/cs/joiningup/a/falsestatements.htm

Lying to Get Into the Military is a Felony

Let's get straight to the point. Knowingly giving false information or withholding required information on any recruiting form is a criminal offense (When the information would have made an individual ineligible to enlist, or would have required a waiver to enlist). It's not a misdemenor, it's not the same as getting a speeding ticket. It's a felony offense, punishable by a $10,000 fine and three years in prison. If you lie to get into the military, you are committing a felony. It's that simple. If you get away with it long enough to actually enlist, and are caught later, it's also a "military offense." You can be prosecuted for a violation of Article 83 of the Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ), which states:

"Any person who--

(1) procures his own enlistment or appointment in the armed forces by knowingly false representation or deliberate concealment as to his qualifications for that enlistment or appointment and receives pay or allowances thereunder; or

(2) procures his own separation from the armed forces by knowingly false representation or deliberate concealment as to his eligibility for that separation; shall be punished as a court-martial may direct.
Elements.

(1) Fraudulent enlistment or appointment.


(a) That the accused was enlisted or appointed in an armed force;

(b) That the accused knowingly misrepresented or deliberately concealed a certain material fact or facts regarding qualifications of the accused for enlistment or appointment;

(c) That the accused’s enlistment or appointment was obtained or procured by that knowingly false representation or deliberate concealment; and

(d) That under this enlistment or appointment that accused received pay or allowances or both. "

[Angie F.- WA: HM mom]

Comment by Angie F.- WA: HM mom on December 18, 2008 at 10:09pm
Ladies, I left a reply in the "what will your child's job be" discussion earlier then, just now saw this. Please, don't let this be you and your son or daughter:

Some very sad news...Joshua is being separated. : ( He was diagnosed with ADHD as a child, but has not taken medication for several years. He does fine, without it. His recruiter told him not to disclose the ADHD, so he didn't. When they got his medical records, it was in there and they immediately separated him. He had an anxiety attack because of everything, and is in the med unit tonight. He will be moved to ship 17 tomorrow and I hope home very soon. He is sad and disappointed. Life is hard, God is good. All will be well. Good luck to all of you and your sailors to be.

So sad and completely unnecessary and avoidable! :( Shame on his Recruiter and any that advises you all to do the same! Find a new recruiter if one tries to pull this with you. Tell your DEPPER to ALWAYS BE HONEST on their paperwork. better to take the time now, see Docs, get exceptions and the right things crossed and dotted then face Ship 17 and possible legal action later. I've seen it happen too many times now. Even once is too many. Hoping I can alter the course here for some of you, before they raise their right hand, sign on the dotted line and arrive at BC.

[Angie F.- WA: HM mom]

Comment by Angie F.- WA: HM mom on December 18, 2008 at 11:54pm
Here is my friend Chris's reply and take on the issue, just in case you think I am overstating the problem: (Emphasis is mine)

This is so sad, and another reason why it's so important to reveal everything, no matter what the recruiter tells you! If you hold something back and they find out (and they will) they separate you for falsifying documents. My son was on anti-depressives for a few months years ago but told them about it up front. He had to jump through a lot of extra hoops, see a psych. and get a medical waiver but they approved it finally. It's not worth trying to hide anything, be up front and tell the truth!

[Angie F.- WA: HM mom]

Comment by Michelle on December 19, 2008 at 7:27am

Angie that is so sad. I hope this doesn't happen to any of our Deppers here!

[Angie F.- WA: HM mom]

Comment by Kathryn on December 19, 2008 at 9:23am
Angie you are so right. My son had ADD throughout school. He stopped with the medicine when he was going for his pilot's licence and was reevaluated by his psychologist. He also has flat feet and wears inserts. We brought this up with the recruiter. They got the records and we had his doctor write a letter saying that his foot condition would not hinder him in any way. If we had not addressed this right away I don't know how things would have turned out.

[Angie F.- WA: HM mom]

Comment by Sheri on December 19, 2008 at 3:56pm
Our recruiter told us that when filling out the medical history form, a NO answer means Naval Opportunity and a YES means Your Enlistment Stops.

[Angie F.- WA: HM mom]

Comment by Jennifer..."Justin's Mom" on December 20, 2008 at 11:19am
Angie thank you for the heads up. My only question is how did the Navy get the medical records? Being in the medical field I can tell you it takes an act of congress to open medical records since they are not considered public record. Especially psych records. I would think that the recruit would have had to mention his ADD diagnosis for it to be investigated.

[Angie F.- WA: HM mom]

Comment by Kathryn on December 20, 2008 at 11:30am
When you sign the papers for them to start the enlistment process you give them permission to check all your records. We asked about the ADD because it was a concern to us. If we hadn't told them they would have seen that he had been prescribed (2 meds) and known anyway.

[Angie F.- WA: HM mom]

Comment by Jennifer..."Justin's Mom" 1 day ago
I found out more information about ADD and joining the Navy. I was wondering how the Navy found out about the diagnosis if it was not disclosed on the initial paperwork. I asked around and found out this answer which makes sense from another mom I found on the Ship 7 forum. It is good advise to disclose the truth from the getgo about any medical or psych history.

"When the recruits lie about ADD prior to Boot Camp the Navy finds out one of 2 ways. First, they may notice symptoms which will cause them to question the recruit in further detail and to request medical records. The recruit may have more difficulty then the average recruit adjusting. Second, there is a moment of Truth where they are given one last chance to own up to any lies or info left off the paper work without suffering legal consequences later down the line( they are told when enlisting in the paperwork they can be fined and imprisoned for lying). Often at this point the recruits will fess up. Honesty from the getgo is the best policy. Boot camp is not easy and often prior medical or psych problems will be triggered by the regimen there."

[Angie F.- WA: HM mom]

Comment by Sue 1 day ago
ADD is where you need to be honest honest honest with your DEP's recruiter! They can be your best resource and help direct your son/daughter in the right direction. My son had a classmate in sub school who went in without disclosing and went without his meds until he broke down in school under the pressure. He ended up on suicide watch. Sub duty is completely voluntary but for obvious reasons they need to be extremely stable personalities, being closed up in extremely close quarters for extended periods is not easy for any one. Please have your recruiter watch out for your recruits best interest while they can!

[Angie F.- WA: HM mom]

For some reason the "reply to this" bar wasn't showing after I finished posting the last comment. So, here's the last two: (Thanks McNavy Mom! :-) )

Comment by Kathryn 1 day ago
In many cases people with ADD can do well with no medication. Behavior modification training is very helpful. My son was very laid back and appeared to be unmotivated with a short attention span. He needed immediate gratification. The boot camp experience had me really worried but as it turned out it was like it was specially designed for this type of problems. They are told what to do almost every moment of the day. He actually liked boot camp!!! That is after the initial shock. He said the trick is pay attention, do what you are told and keep your mouth shut. He has been in the fleet now almost 2 years and is thriving. So there is hope for anyone out there with this type of challenge. Be honest with yourselves and with your recruiter.

[Angie F.- WA: HM mom]

Comment by Sue 23 hours ago
Kathryn, I absolutely agree! My son did quite well, still does, in the Navy environment, he thrives on the structure! The young man in school with him in sub school knew that he had not disclosed the information and had always been on medication so the four + months were difficult for him. It was difficult for my son to be on watch for this young man when he himself has dealt with ADD as well, but we have always chosen the behavior modification and not meds road.

[diane {Shawns mom}]

I am sorry.....I will have to read this novel Angie....but just wanted it to look like you WEREN"t talking to ya self!
NOw I must go and READ!!!!1