Leave vs. Liberty

Thank you. This site has been incredibly helpful and easy to navigate to find answers to my questions!

I have updated the body of the main blog post to reflect the new PIR liberty policies.

Tip for holiday leave travel:  NEVER BOOK MORNING FLIGHTS FOR DEPARTING THE SCHOOL.  Okay?  The command is checking out hundreds or thousands of sailors, it takes time.  

ALWAYS GET THEM BACK A DAY EARLY.  Even a valid flight delay will mean the sailor is UA if he/she is not present and checked in off leave.  

(UA = unauthorized absence)

Another leave tip:  Mexico is still off limits to our sailors, although I understand  they can go with special permission to some areas in some cases.  Basically, that equals a pile of paperwork.  General advice: don't book a cruise for them as a surprise.  The Navy and surprises never mix well.

It's a great blog. I would suggest copying and pasting to a FORUM discussion under ADVICE, so that it could be "featured"  ...............

Oh Judy--that's a hoot and a big giggle. 

Thank you for updating them AntiM! I post this on the PIR groups often.

Oh, you might want to check the link you have posted. It doesn't lead to a pdf anymore. :-)

Thanks.

Thanks for this information.  My son is due to graduate from A school in about a month.  We were going to fly in for the graduation but he is now saying he may be on hold for 10 days prior to his leave.  He is saying maybe we shouldn't spend the money to come down because he won't have much time with us and we should just wait to see him on leave.  We haven't made any reservations yet and I'm not sure what to do at this point.  Has anyone heard of this situation?

Lori, the A school graduation is nothing much to see.  And yes, he could be on hold waiting for orders after, some wait months.  I'd hold off.

callie... oh, if he's taking leave now, his chances at Christmas are slim.  One, he may not have enough leave on the books.  Two, if he's the "new guy", those guys rarely gets the choice dates, the guys who have been there longer get priority.  LOL, experiencing shore duty... not quite.  Anyway, ships and commands may go on a relaxed holiday routine, meaning more liberty days/shorter work days around Christmas ... but they assuredly do not go on stand down like the school commands do.  

Thanksgiving?  Yeah, if the ship can cut them some slack they do. But hardly anyone pulls the four day weekend without taking leave unless their duty rotation is extremely good or they swap days with permission.  On liberty, they still have that recall miles limit.

Thanks AntiM.  That's what we've decided to do.  Turns out he has to leave the same day and he will have some leave, so we will pick him up at the airport and spend some time with him at home.  He hasn't been home since boot camp so he and we can't wait!

Anti, thank you very much. I now understand the differance  between Liberty and Leave. Is Standdown a different thing from these two?
The latter affects me...my husband's PIR is 12/28 and a school is at GL.

Yes, the stand down is simply a period of time when daily activity and duty is "relaxed", and offers an opportunity for sailors to take leave to go home.  Those who stay behind will be on a relaxed liberty routine, although they will still stand duty.  Someone always stands duty!

Your sailor will have the chance to take leave also during this time.

For future reference, most commands in the fleet do not go into a full stand down, but they go into a holiday routine, which means granting feasible leave requests, and loosening the work schedule with as much liberty as they can for those not taking leave.  Obviously, this is simpler for shore duty rather than for ships at sea!

You'll hear "stand down" in other contexts too.  Basically it means stop, go off duty, cease action.  

My son's PIR is 1 Feb 13 we will be there. I would like to take him to my home town Rockford for a day trip before he starts prebuds. It's about 75 miles (2hrs) away. How can we find out before hand if we can take him there?

ok.... my son is going to be in A school for Christmas....if he doesnt get/take leave can i go to where he is for the holiday? Will he have time off or will he have to stay on base...no visitors?

He will be strongly encouraged to take leave, and he can borrow days if he hasn't earned enough.  If he stays at Great Lakes, he can have visitors and will be able to leave the base, up to 300 miles (only 50 miles on PIR weekend).  What time he has to be back on base, or if he can wear civilian clothes, will depend on what phase of liberty he has earned. Phase one is restrictive, but not too bad.  
Here is the current liberty phase policy:

https://www.facebook.com/notes/training-support-center-tsc-great-la...

My son will be half through boot camp by Christimas. I understand he cannot leave the base but can I visit him on Christmas Day at the base ? 

susaninmd:  I can't answer that, but my understanding is that will be treated as a Sunday type day, where they can write letters, etc.  However, have never heard of any way you can visit a recruit during training.  Does anyone know if they have Christmas adoptions like they do Thanksgiving, and if so, how far along in training they need to be?  My sailor missed all those important holidays at boot camp, as he graduated in August 5 years ago.

There is an adopt a sailor program for Christmas Day, the divisions who are eligible send out the forms soon.  Must be a family member, and able to show ID, prove they are who they say they are.  You can't just show up and visit, you have to have the pre-approved form.

I was in boot camp for the holidays, although it was when we had a training base in Orlando.  I'm not religious, but I went to church to listen to the choir and to be able to sit without anyone bothering me.  Our brother company was able to get a TV brought in to watch football on New Years, and I was able to go to a family for dinner on New Years with a few other recruits.  They don't let random families adopt anymore for security reasons, but it was nice.   There are church groups who provide a Christmas dinner for entire divisions now, again, they have to be further along in training.  Which divisions and which groups aren't publicized, security reasons again.

Very helpful. thanks

Thank you for the update. My son is scheduled to leave for BC Oct 27. It looks like he would have PIR on either the 19th or Christmas Eve! Really hoping it is the 19th. If all goes according to plan he will have A school in Great Lakes which means it may be possible for him to come home for Christmas. Keeping my fingers crossed. This new Navy Mom really appreciates all of the information provided here!

Thank you.  Here's hoping he gets holiday leave!    

You're welcome.

Do they still do the Meet and Greet the night before PIR?  In my day and time (1990!) they allowed the parents to see the recruit the night before.  Trying to decide what time to fly in on Tuesday.  

No, they no longer do that.  There is an unofficial meet and greet for family run by Sarge.

Great, thanks for the quick reply and info!

autumnnek72, I left info for you on your My Page.

Thanks! This seems to mean my son who graduates PIR 12/4 - and then comes to Groton Sub Base immediately following should have Liberty at least for Christmas Day - we live about 45 miles away from the base :-)!!!!!

submarine, perhaps.

submarine... probably.  Maybe a week of leave over either Christmas or New Year.  Groton is one of the training commands which makes them take one or the other.   

that is a lot of information!  definitely good to know.  daughter entering DEP this week.  she is excited! and I am a nervous wreck!  

that is a lot of information!  definitely good to know.  daughter entering DEP this week.  she is excited! and I am a nervous wreck!  

There's a lot to learn for sure!

   I am hoping someone can clear this up for me--we have been getting conflicting info from the recruiter, the Facebook site (graduation private site--not the GL Navy site- which I am finding is not as reliable on info) and here. The above info is GREAT!!  The recruiter my son had told us that stand down for over Christmas would NOT count against my son's leave time--as did three others that were at GL at the same time of year when they went through.  My son was in DEP from about April until his ship out date to BC-GL on 10/6---Do they earn time for this period in DEP as well? Technically, they have been sworn in the first time, signed papers and are government property. The recruiter stated (I have double checked with a few sources--other recruiters and former Navy) that because it is on stand down and no one is there, its not counted against their leave time.  I want to check with the liaison on GL (Public Affairs) , but I am afraid of repercussions to my son if I do reach out to them to ask. If the base/A school at GL (where he will be) is empty/shut down, no one there, it is not logical that the time would take him in the hole.  I want to exact info on this as I have now heard from several former Navy people I know and 4 recruiters that I have talked with that say the same thing. --does not count. against their leave time--that is the added bonus of A school at GL ---Help please!! Is there an official site that I can go to or someone I can call anonymously to ask at GL?  Hear it from the horse's mouth type deal at this point.  Thank you again for the above info--it clarifies other questions I had.

Cameronsmom, the earned leave begins accruing at a rate of 2.5 days per month (30 days per year) from the day that the recruit is sworn in on the way to the RTC. If your then Sailor takes Leave over the holiday stand down (those staying at GL as your then Sailor will typically do take leave for some days over the holiday stand down), then it will count against his leave and he may then not be able to take leave after completing "A" School depending on how much time he takes over Christmas, which would then affect his ability to take part in the RAP program. In the RAP program the Sailor assists the recruiter while on Leave between "A" School and reporting to the first duty station and can get credit for 5 days of unchargeable leave for helping for just a few hours each day. The holiday stand down at "A" School is one time when some commands, such as GL, permit Sailors to "go in the hole" on Leave and take more leave than is actually on the books at that time.

His ability to take leave is determined by the TSC, not the RTC.

The time in DEP counts against the ready reserve time, but does not count toward accruing leave.

The Bases are not shut down/empty during the holidays either. The schools may shut down but every base must maintain a level of operational readiness so there is always personnel there to do this. 

I also read another post AntiM did that advised not to book early departures for the Sailors as it takes a while to process them out for leave. They should also get back to their schools at least a day (or so) early in case of travel delays etc. Not good if they come back late. It doesn't matter if it is the airlines etc. fault, the Sailors need to be forward thinking about it.

Stand down time off is indeed leave, and it does count against earned leave balance.  

Also, to be crystal clear, RAP cannot be done in conjunction with holiday leave, but can be used between A/C school and his first command.  Recruiting stations are often closed during the holidays.

I went to A school in Great Lakes, a lot has changed, but not this.  The recruiters you are talking to are badly misinformed.  I am thinking bad thoughts about their work ethic.  Either they did not go to school in Great Lakes, or they did not go to any A school during the holidays. 

Best place to ask questions without repercussions might be the Facebook page:

https://www.facebook.com/TrainingSupportCenterGreatLakes/