Naval Aviation

Marianne, thank you! I really appreciate it. :)

Welcome to you, heyloworld!!  Hope the both the wedding plans and OSC go smoothly.  As Marianne said, if you have any questions, or need any support ... this is the place!!  peace to you

My DS is deploying for the first time in March. He is a P3 pilot. I live halfway across the country from him and his new wife. I always knew this day would come, but it frightens me. I expressed my desire to visit him before he deploys. However, they don't feel up to having me.  

They have a lot going on and have had a lot on their plate for the past couple of months:

-Fiancee started a new job as an RN 
-long distance wedding planning (wedding in Hawaii, her hometown)
-house hunting
-house buying contract negotiations, mortgage, etc.
- Dec 30th wedding in Hawaii
-Hawaii family (hers) trauma and drama (very serious & extreme)
- Jan 24 closing on house, moving, cleaning old apt., shopping for appliances, etc. all while both working full time
-trying to settle in, unpack boxes, etc. all while working full time
-Wife no longer in training at work and they want to give her extra responsibilities, overtime, long shifts, etc.
-they are facing his deployment and her being alone for 6 months

They said that their guest room isn't set up. I can't help feeling disappointed and that I just want to see him before he goes. My daughter says I'm being dramatic and taking it as a personal rejection.

Just needing to vent to people who may have experienced what I'm feeling.

helenp: It sounds like you really need to see your son. I can understand all the stresses your son and his wife are under, but it seems like there must be a way to make a visit work. If you cannot stay at their house, could you stay in a nearby hotel with rental car or else an AirBNB?  

Thanks rousse54 and Suzie. I will try to make them understand. However, right now my DS calls me when he's alone. I don't want to transfer my fears onto his shoulders. My DIL's mother was horrible to them and it has affected my DIL. Our relationship was great before the Hawaii experience. After, she is different toward me than before, even though I did nothing wrong. So I am being told to be patient and not push her. 

helenp; It sounds like your DIL is projecting her own feelings towards her mother onto you. Which may be totally understandable but if her relationship with her own mother has deteriorated, one would think she would appreciate another mother figure who could offer her love, support and comfort at a time when she sure could use it. She sounds young to me, is she? I am glad you get to speak to your DS when he is alone. I hope he can talk with his new bride and explain/persuade/cajole her into letting you come.  You need it and so does he.

I have a different view. One of the hardest things as a Navy mom is ‘letting go’ once your son is married. You have been there always, worried and prayed through every challenge, supported your son at every move. Now he has found his love, his wife, and is creating a new family with her. It is very stressful as a deployment looms, for everyone. I share your pain, that’s what’s great about navy4moms.

I agree with the advice to be patient, be gracious, and tell your son and new DIL that you respect whatever they decide about visitors pre and post-deployment.

One of my favorite quotes...

’ impatience crashed the gate...grace gets invited in’                   You want to get invited in. 

Wise words, Ulua. 

ulua - I agree with your advice, BUT...

In fact, after they returned from the wedding I had a heart-to-heart with my son and told him that each of their primary allegiance is now to one another over anyone else, including mothers, hers or his. I am happy with the intelligent young woman he has chosen to spend his life with. 

I'm frustrated because I have done what you suggest with her before - patience and love and support. And it worked. My DIL was communicating with me regularly and asking my advice on important things, like weighing two very different job offers, sending me pictures of houses they were looking at. She had grown to trust me. I never pushed, and I have not pushed now, but it's not fair. 

This military thing was his dream, and I have supported him through it all and I am immeasurably proud of him. But today the "what ifs" hit me. I don't think I could ever forgive her for not allowing me to hug him before he leaves this first time. I know I'm being dramatic, but I can't help it.

I, of course have not shared my drama with them, but it also has occurred to me that I have not clearly communicated to them why I want to visit, not to "be a visitor" or see a perfectly settled new house, but for my own emotional well-being.

Thanks for listening everybody.

 thank you for being so honest about your feelings. It’s clear how deeply you feel about this. 

You are a thoughtful, loving mother and MIL. It sounds like you are very supportive of their union and understand your role is to respect their new family.

they are a new couple establishing their married relationship in the midst of a lot of stress. As hard as it is, please consider telling them you respect their decision about visitors pre- and post- deployment. Say ‘I love you’ before and after making that statement.

Stay dedicated to the ‘long-view’ of having a happy, connected family. 

Your stress and worries are real and understandable. find a positive approach to managing them! Find support through friendships, hobbies, faith. Set a personal goal to work towards while your son deploys; like an excercise goal. Stay positive! 

Ulua,

I cannot tell you how much I feel your pain. I have 2 sons and have experienced similar circumstances as you. It is disappointing to have been a good mother and worked so hard only to have this type of issue. During my son’s wedding - long distance - cross country also - I received similar info about my DIL’s family. They were problems etc. imagine my surprise when - like you - I felt pushed away and became the “same” to them. It’s tough. Unfortunately, how the DIL treats her parents will be how she treats you - and the man will follow her lead. If you make him choose - he will choose his wife as he should. We taught them to be independent and they are - but we never realized it might mean you are out! You have to take what you get. I learned to not ask - but say - “I am flying in on such and such a date. I get a hotel room and car.” If they have only a meal here or there in a restaurant - and I will pay - you take it if you want to hug your son goodbye. I’ve found my sons are at an age they can only see us as an inconvenience and they don’t want to be blamed if they don’t do this right or that right - or don’t spend enough time with you. The pressure as a pilot is huge, new live in relationships, and just the hard stuff about growing up. They feel like kids around us somehow. And judged.  If you say, well you have to eat - and I will take you out to dinner then I find you’re not invading their home, so to speak. My DIL in Pensacola didn’t even offer us a drink of water when we walked into their new home even though my other son flew across country and so did we for his winging. It’s disappointing because it’s not how we raised them. Hoping it gets better after they have kids. It does for some - for others it doesn’t. My one son - that DIL left him after 15 months. I’m still here. I went through so much. I finally learned. I read a book on relationships with adult kids called “Walking on Eggshells” (make sure you get the one about parenting) It helped. Taught me to lower my expectations or don’t go. They may be your whole world still - but we are SO not theirs. I hear it may get better with age or when they have my grandkids. Sure hope so. There are whole support groups now for parents whose children won’t even see them. It’s tough. I pray for the pain to be healed - a lot. Will pray for you now. Time to find a new place to put your energy. Message me privately anytime! 

Ulua,

This part of my comment got cut off:

We are their past- she is his future. You’ve done nothing wrong except bring him up right and teach him right. Now it’s time to let go. Not an easy thing. I sure wish I’d had a girl!  Xoxo

Helopilot mom, I think you meant your message for Helenp.

luckily, we have a great relationship with our DILs. I did experience the boundary push-back pressure in my relationship with my DIL  after they married. I was the one that needed to change, as you say, ‘lower my expectations.’

My message to Helenp is to tell her son and new DIL she respects their decision regarding visitors Pre-  AND post-deployment. I would text that message directly to the DIL. Helenp started out well with her DIL, maybe the new couple just need some privacy right now. 

it sounds like you, helopilotmom took a different path, you learned not to ask and planned your visits directly. That works for you. Every mom is on their own journey.

Helopilotmom, your experience is heart-breaking, Thankyou for writing about it. Don’t  give up hope for your ‘future’ as a connected family.

Ulua,

Yes, you are right - I mistook you as the original writer. I did mean the comment for Helen P. Thanks for the correction!

As to your recent comment about probably- I agree about privacy which is why I said I don’t ask nor demand to go to their home nor stay at their home. When we were invited, there was not much hospitality - perhaps due to ignorance or due to the DIL not really wanting us there — I don’t try to figure that out anymore.

my point is it’s a long trip for a hug - or a meal - but if that’s what she needs, then don’t place them in a position to have to say “no” to a guest in their home. It’s a beautiful place to visit and if her son can get away and calls her alone, then ask him to get away for a meal alone If the DIL prefers it. She might. Take the pressure off the “them.” I learned this with step parenting. Not that Helen doesn’t want to see her Future DIL, but he’s the one deploying and that’s who she wants to hug goodbye. So take the DIL out of the picture - and just say I’d Like To come and be less hassle on everyone. I will stay at a hotel and you just meet me for a meal when you can. If she’s agreeable, have her meet me. But don’t expect them to make tons of time for you. That made it easy for me. We stay only a day or two max (remember the old saying that guests are like fish after 2 days they begin to stink!) Have some things to do alone while you wait on him/them. And don’t talk about your relationship or anything heavy. Instead be super positive and fun. Make good memories. I try to forget they are my sons and instead treat them like I would a nice couple I know casually. No pressure and light. It can be tough - but that’s a safe way to ensure you get to see them again. It’s not what I dreamed of nor pictured in my mind for my relationship with my son and wife - but it is what it is. Being long distance doesn’t help. It’s better for me than for the parents on my DIL who live a couple of of miles away and who I have found get the same treearment. It’s nothing personal — I find it’s the self centeredness of kids. 

Don’t let it make you feel bad. I find some kids (a small percentage) are different - I worked in a high school office - but they are the minority. When the girls don’t push for a close fam relationship - most boys follow suit. It’s easier than battling with a strong willed woman. LOL. I think often the DIL is intimated by you even if she likes you. 

The good news - as I stay away more often than not and hands things this way with little demands - I get more calls and have god relationships with my sons. 

HeloPilotMom: RE: "I sure wish I’d had a girl!  Xoxo" - I DO have a girl! She lives in a different state also. Actually, the girls are much more difficult emotionally. My boys were easier and made me laugh. Also, my son is an identical twin. His twin brother is single. He also lives out-of-state, but he visited this past weekend. They were both in the wedding.

And don't get me wrong, the wedding was beautiful and lovely. My DIL and son did a great job planning it and making it happen long distance. The only negative was her mom's behavior, and since they stayed with her parents for two weeks, it was hard on them.

My DIL is sweet and we did have a great relationship before. She was so excited at the prospect of me visiting pre-deployment when I suggested it back in the fall. I am guessing that everything is harder than she expected. I am confident that she'll be back to normal with me at some point, but I am not confident that it will happen before he departs, and I am afraid that during his deployment, with our common link not there, it might not happen. Those are my fears, but I don't know if I'm correct. Back in the fall, she would reach out to me a lot, so I guess I'm reacting to the change.

My son calls me a few times a week and stays on the phone a long time, so I'm not worried about losing him, and she would never want to hurt his relationship with me. 

So, Ulua, I guess I've talked myself out of trying to visit. I'm taking the patience route. But I reserve the right to not like it. LOL

Thanks for helping me to process my feelings.

You go Helen P!

The “girl” comment has much more with working with seniors...girls maybe more emotional, but when when they get older, over many years of my experience, I see them caring for parents and RARELY see a young man doing so - sadly!  Hence my comment. Of course there are exceptions, when a DIL is a nurturer or feels family takes precedence. It’s all in how hey were brought up. 

My boys call me several times a week too and talk - and my son did a great job of planning a HUGE wedding - and they paid for it! But staying with them makes things much more dicey I’ve found. My DIL is such a great person - so sweet and strong - but basically my son has said - we put up this boundary because of her parents - but it goes the same for my family too—so there are no complaints about it-LOL Also, before the wedding they want your approval - it’s a big deal to your son - and after the wedding, they no longer need it. Real life pressures happen.Peace at the wedding and all that is no longer a part of it. 

I found my one DIL to be a perfectionist - she likes all of us but doesn’t want to be found less than perfect and can’t handle her self-induced stress of guests. It pushes her over the edge but emotionally and physically. 

I can understand it’s expensive to go to Hawaii and stay elsewhere etc but I sure wouldn’t miss saying goodbye to My son if he likes to speak with you often, etc. just because they may not want you to stay in their home. If you can afford it, just mention you could do that and you wouldn’t expect tons of their time. It just might take the pressure off. Now if you’re expecting a lot of attention from the visit, or can’t afford it without staying with them, I’d stay home!

Good advice from everyone on here —but keep it light and easy — they don’t need anymore stress — and do what your heart tells you is right!!  

I've read all the comments and pondered whether to add my 2 cents.  helenp: I understand your dilemma and feelings.  My sweet DIL and I had bonded before they married.  Our first visit to them six months after the wedding was difficult and I was blind-sided.  But I managed to back off and give them space. I spent the next two years reaching out to her personally; especially when he was gone for training.  When it came time for him to deploy, we let them have their space.  I remember the last phone call before he left.  I managed to keep it together while he was on the phone and burst into tears when we hung up.  One of the hardest things I've done.  Again, during deployment, I called, texted, sent cards, little gift cards for a lunch date with a friend to her and did my best to focus on her.  In return, she shared much of the news that DS shared with her.  We received occasional emails from him and 1 phone call from him while in port in the six months while he was gone.  I reminded myself over and over that his relationship with her was the most important...and I really do want it to be that way!  She blessed me with an invitation to join her pier-side when the ship returned!  (My hubby was on the ship on the Tiger Cruise, and she had seen him at a port call six weeks prior to homecoming.)

Their first baby is due in a month; then he will be deploying within the next 4 months. So, we will be making more adjustments.  

And it is so different from my daughter.  Who also lives 2500 miles away from me (civilian).  She is always planning my next visit to them (2 grandbabies) before I leave.  

So, hang in there.  We can all feel your pain...and yes, we don't have to like it. And venting here is always acceptable!

Excellent comments and advice Cheri. It’s a tightrope we walk and giving space and keeping communication open is key. My Mom was a Navy Nurse - then wife for 21 years - (later a Navy and Air Force Mom) — the wife part being much harder she said! As she always told me - there isn’t any education but only “on the job” training - much more learning by mistakes- for being a son, Husband, Wife or a Mom!  My husband has 6 kids and 14 grandkids and 3 great grandkids — and he says offer forgiveness and grace where we can, but nothing hurts more than when we get pushed away by our kids!  Hang in there — and wait for the grandkids!!

Thanks HeloPilotMom...after I pushed send, I went to clean the bathrooms and hoped that I didn't come across as a know it all.  Nothing like scrubbing toilets to get me thinking!  

Anyhow, helenp...none of us have all the answers.  And no two relationships are the same.  Just know that this Navy mom gig is not an easy one.  So many blessings and proud moments, but also many hard ones and even some heartache.  

It reminds me of the meme..."remember when we were young and all we wanted to do was grow up?  What were we thinking????"

Cheri, my journey has been similar to yours. An adjustment period of about two years where I learned to let go and give them space while being supportive and loving. Good idea to send the gift cards! 

hurricane, Thankyou for the article about deployments. I hope you will consider that being a military mom continues a connection to our son that a civilian mom may not experience. I agree with you about being respectful to the new couple and their wishes for visitors. You and your husband are the first priority.

during the deployment if you can find the energy and time to stay connected to your spouse’s family, updating information or just saying hello, it would be a kind thing. But totally understandable if just getting through a day is all you can manage. 

Thankyou for your perspective!

Go figure! My son just called and said, DIL and I think you should come next week while I'm on deployment leave." Just like that. Of course the airfares are high at this late notice, and I'm unemployed right now, but I am going. I feel so much better. Thank you Moms for all of your kind and thoughtful advice. I'm glad I reached out to you instead of acting out my emotional junk.

Our son has 21 years in the Navy, 3 years as a Navy Nurse and 18 years as a pilot. 6 deployments...the planets aligned and we were finally able to see his arrival home on his last deployment  in 2015. The 1st one was tough as he was leaving for the Persian Gulf in January 2003. We knew they were heading for war. He was a newlywed of 6 months. We got pictures from our DIL! Next deployment he was a husband and dad with a baby daughter. We got great pictures! When he left for Afghanistan they had a 2 month old baby boy. He called us from an airport in Maine, the troop transport's last stop leaving the US. Awesome pictures! On his return I had connected with a Navy mom in Baltimore who was with a USO group that greeted troops at the airport returning from Afghanistan and Iraq. She gave him a hug for me. They sent pictures! You get used to them coming and going. I sometimes forget what a different life we lead until I'm comparing notes with civilian friends. We are fortunate that we have always enjoyed a good relationship with our DIL and she knows we have her back. It’s grind sometimes, this military life. 

Congrats Helen P!  Go and have fun! I’m waiting on my help pilot’s soft patch before he deploys. It for resheduked last month — so yep - my airfares will be high too! But praise God! Glad you are going!!!  Let us know how great it was!!!  

Family relationships are so complicated!! We haven't met, Helenp, but I am sending you a hug.

I just returned from a great week with my son and DIL. Thanks again for your support. Now I have questions about mailing packages to him during deployment. I understand that we can use the flat-rate priority boxes from USPS andt here's a two-dollar discount when sending to an APO/FPO address. When will he get his APO/FPO address? Is the APO/FPO address a domestic rate address? My DIL found out it would cost $97 to send the large USPS flat rate boxes to Bahrain and she got all upset. I told her I think it's not international pricing for the military. Am I correct?

helenp We have shipped packages overseas using the flat rate priority boxed with an APO/FPO address for $18 per box.

helenp - When my son was in Japan for 3 years I sent everything over using the flat rate boxes. Make sure that you get the special military boxes, not regular priority boxes. They go priority to the APO/FPO address but have a much lower flat rate. There are several sizes and there is no weight limit. The Postal Service will deliver them to your home for free. Just go on the USPS web site and order them.

Your DIL was probably using regular Priority Boxes, which do have a weight limit charge for overseas. She needs to get the special military boxes.

You may have to fill out customs forms, though I think that was because my DS was attached to the only forward deployed carrier (doesn't come back to a US port).

HelenP, I'm so glad that it all worked out!  My DS is forward deployed so I am a frequent USPS shopper.  I ordered some of the military kits from USPS (they took a while to arrive) and they even give you tape, address labels, and customs forms.  You do need a customs form for everything you send.  They give you a $2 discount on the large priority box, but the others are regular flat rate.  (at least at my post office!)  They are the best deal, along with ordering direct shipments from Amazon!    

When I mailed the 85 Christmas stockings they were too  large for those boxes so I shipped them in Home Depot medium packing boxes...those were a lot more expensive.  I think I spent about $300 on shipping all the boxes, but it was totally worth it for how it helped me get through DS being gone for the holidays!

My DIL and I now understand the mail. We were slow learners. LOL Thanks for the help. My son received his FPO Address, but it seems weird to me that it says Box #, but there is no # there. Should there be one? Here's what it looks like:

NAME

Unit ?????? Box#

FPO AP?????

Exciting news!  DS and DIL have a baby boy!!!  He was born yesterday...mom and baby are doing great.  So grateful for the timing...DS passed his final checkride for Level 3 on Monday; was scheduled for an out/in on Friday, but decided to cancel it.  And of course, she went into labor Thursday night.  Hubs and I have plane tickets to go meet the lil darlin for Easter.  Soooo happy!

Congratulations! That is wonderful news!

Congratulations CheriH! So exciting to have a new family member!

Thank you Suzie. He leaves in 2 weeks, so for now I'll be patient and wait a little longer to see if they give him the box#. Yes the ??? replaced the actual numbers. Didn't think I should share that. Thanks again.

CheriH, a grandchild is exciting news! Hope you enjoy every minute of Easter.

CheriH, congratulations!!  

Congratulations CheriH!!

How wonderful, CheriH!  Congratulations and best wishes to the whole family!

Suzie,

All of our aviators have been on my mind when I heard about the crash in Key West. It has been a rough year and half for our Naval aviators. My DS was a pilot before commissioning with the Navy and I grew up with a father and brother that flew jets in the Air Force, yet, I find myself worrying every time I know he is flying. Thank you for reaching out tonight --we are all praying for each pilot and their families.

Suzie,

Thank you for commenting. I was tied up all day with the birthday for my DS'  older brother (but younger  mentally as Intellectual challenged but a real joy) so saw the  news about the F18  just a while ago.  Was worried  greatly because my DS has been in F-18's for 13 years and sometimes flies out of Norfolk/Virginia Beach (not attached in his present job to only one Wing Beach) and not been home for a phone call so I was sitting here worrying  and trying to decide if I should call my DS, but did not want to wake him  or my DIL since when he flies it is often a very early getup time.  Decided I would just check this discussion line  and then came back to it and your message told me my DS was not  the aviator. But I also grieve for the families of the two young men and pray very hard for them.  This discussion board is so helpful as we all face similar events with a carrier aviator  to worry over.As kaarinac said, I never stop worrying . My DS went to an aeronautical university so I have been hanging on to news announcements for about 17 years  for my DS or his friends and it seems to get worse as the crashes keep increasing in number.  No wonder I have more worry lines than I wish.  

 My thoughts and prayers go out to the families and loved ones of these two Aviators. My son hasn't even gotten to OCS yet and I was just getting over worrying about him when he does go, and now this has brought all my worries to the forefront again.  How do you mothers do it? My son seems fatalistic about these kind of accidents, guess you have to be to enter in a risky job like a Naval Aviator, but it scares me and worries me so much. 

I went to bed last night knowing they had recovered the aviators and taken them to the hospital.  Kept praying that they were fine.  Only to see the news when I got up.  My DS was just in Key West a month ago, training.  It hits so close to home.  

rousse54:  The worry is a constant companion; altho at times it fades into the background.  Then something like this brings it back.  Lots of prayer; this community of moms who get it; and the knowledge that our aviators are doing what they love and are called to do.  That's what gets me through it.  

Hugs to you all and especially the families and friends of those two brave aviators.  

So so sad. I feel so bad for these families. People always ask me if I worry about my son flying. I always tell them I feel he is safer in the air than on the highway. Years ago when he first started flight school I helped him study during a visit and I was amazed at the safety procedures he had to know so well that they were automatic in his brain. That did make me feel better. For me I have to put it all in God's hands but I am human and a mom so I worry. I find it helps me when I don't know if he is in the air or on the road. Guess I can then picture him sitting safely at home. Crazy I know.

I have worried about DS every step of the way from OCS, his jet training, two deployments, and now test pilot school. After 7 years I realize how competent he is and I just pray a lot. I am a worrier and have just tried to think positive. 

My heart goes out to the families of the two aviators and their fellow fliers. The longer we are in this community the more people touch our hearts and souls.

I'm having a hard time concentrating today.  I keep thinking about the young aviators lost and their families and friends.  My heart just aches for them.  My DS knew one of the young men killed in the last crash and that was hard.  I pray for all. So sad....

We definitely all agree - this is our worst nightmare.  Prayers and thoughts to the family, friends and squadron mates of these two fallen warriors.  It definitely hits close to home, when your DS was there just a few months ago for similar training.

Praying for the aviators and their families!! 

Keeping our community in prayer! 

So many sleepless nights....praying for peace and calm days ahead.

Adding my earnest prayers to all of yours as we hold those lost and their families and squadron mates in sympathy and in gratitude for their sacrifice.  May they rest in eternal peace and may God fill their loved ones with comfort and courage for the difficult days ahead.