081008-N-5549O-022 WASHINGTON (Oct. 8, 2008) Secretary of the Navy (SECNAV) the Honorable Dr. Donald C. Winter, right, and Chief of Naval Operations (CNO) Admiral Gary Roughead depart the United States Supreme Court after listening to oral argument regarding the use of sonar in naval training exercises off the coast of California. The Supreme Court will decide a dispute between the U.S. Navy and conservationists over sonar use during naval training exercises off the coast of Southern California. U.S. Navy photo by Mass Communication Specialist 2nd Class Kevin S. O'Brien (Released)
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Supreme Court Hears Navy Sonar Case
Story Number: NNS081008-10
Release Date: 10/8/2008 8:34:00 PM
From the Department of the Navy
WASHINGTON (NNS) -- The Supreme Court heard oral argument Oct. 8 regarding the Navy's use of active sonar during major training exercises in Southern California.
"This case is important to our Navy and our nation's security. I appreciate the Supreme Court's willingness to take the case and afford us the opportunity to be heard this morning," stated the Secretary of the Navy, Donald C. Winter.
The U.S. Solicitor General, Gregory G. Garre, opened his argument before the nine Supreme Court justices, stating that the Navy's training is vitally important to Navy strike groups deployed around the world and to our national security.
On behalf of the Navy and Department of Commerce, the U.S. Solicitor General, in his merits brief, challenged the restrictions imposed by the lower courts. The Navy's position is that the lower court's decision is legally erroneous and conflicts with the judgment of Congress, the President and the nation's top naval officers. The preliminary injunction prevents Navy strike groups from conducting realistic training with mid-frequency active (MFA) sonar off the coast of Southern California.
The U.S. District Court in Los Angeles handed down its original ruling in August 2007 and, in January 2008, imposed burdensome training restrictions that the Navy determined would unacceptably put the Navy's ability to deploy trained strike groups at risk. These included a requirement to shut down sonar altogether when marine mammals are within 2,200 yards of any sonar source and to reduce sonar power by 75 percent when the Navy detects significant surface ducting conditions, whether or not a marine mammal is present. Surface ducting conditions are characterized by a mixed layer of constant water temperature extending at least 100 feet below the surface.
The 2,200-yard shutdown zone is 11 times greater than the existing shutdown distance that the Navy developed in consultation with the National Marine Fisheries Service.
The requirement to reduce sonar power by 75 percent during significant surface ducting conditions, whether or not a marine mammal is present, will prevent Navy strike groups from conducting training to detect submarines in the same conditions in which submarines seek to hide.
The district court ruling was affirmed by the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals Feb. 29. The Supreme Court agreed to review the case June 23, which led to the oral argument.
The Navy strives to reduce the environmental impacts of its training and to promote environmental stewardship while effectively conducting operations that are essential to national security. During anti-submarine warfare active sonar training, the Navy implements dozens of different measures to protect marine mammals established by the Navy in cooperation with National Oceanographic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA). Beyond environmental compliance, the Navy also is a world leader in marine mammal research. The Navy recently invested $25 million toward several research goals. For example, the Navy is researching the distribution and abundance of protected marine species and their habitats and is working to improve the understanding of the effects of sound on marine mammals.
The Navy must conduct realistic anti-submarine warfare training by using active sonar at sea to prepare sonar operators for combat. The acoustic complexity of the ocean environment, particularly in shallow water areas where the Navy hunts for quiet diesel submarines, makes real-world training a necessity. Even the best simulators cannot effectively emulate the underwater environment. When Navy men and women go into harm's way, they need to be trained and ready.
While the case remains in the Supreme Court pending decision, the Navy and the Department of Commerce continue to prepare an environmental impact statement (EIS) that will analyze training with mid-frequency active sonar as part of a more comprehensive study of training in the Southern California operating area to ensure continued compliance with environmental regulations in that area. The EIS is expected to be completed in December.
Adm. Gary Roughead, Chief of Naval Operations, had this to say in reflection of the day's events, "I appreciate the work the Department of Justice has done in moving this vital issue forward, and I am pleased the Supreme Court heard the case today. A well-trained Navy is key to defending our security and prosperity."
You are absolutely correct Donna. Tim's roommate is 23 and Tim turns 19 on Oct. 29th. It's scary to think that when they go off base together his friend can drink, but Tim cant. His roommate is also supposed to be getting a tattoo today, I didn't think they were allowed to get tattoo's. Tim asked me about getting one. Well, I have 3 myself, but I didn't get them until I was 44 LOL I tried to tell him he had to wait until he was 44, but that didn't go over...but I did convince him to let me take him to the lady who did mine!! So that will be a while before we are in California again, hopefully he will forget by then. Anyway, I hope that we have taught Tim well enough to realize no matter what others are doing around him, he needs to stay out of trouble.
Thanks Donna and Denise, So I guess it's just while in DEP they can't get a tattoo, that's good to know. Last night Tim was talking about getting 3. We will see after he finds out how much it hurts! As for the drinking, we will just have to wait and see, I don't believe Tim is a big fan of it, he gets mad at his Dad when he has a beer. All we can do it pray. I'm glad your's has gotten past that phase already Donna! And Denise, I'm sure he will stay true to who he is.
Hi Mom of Many, my son just completed week 2 of his training, he PIR'd on 9/26. He is loving San Diego, they went to Sea World today. My son is only 18, will be 19 on Oct 29th, his roommate is 23 and I just have to hope and pray that he keeps out of trouble. Hi roommate is still awaiting his security clearance and has more time on his hands than Tim does. Tim preferes to stay on base and hang out in his room so far...hope it stays that way. Welcome to the group Mom of Many, there are ladies in here who's son's have graduated and are in the fleet and others who are still waiting to class up. Congrats on your new sailor! I'm sure he will love San Diego!
Welcome Pat!! Sounds like your son is doing awesome!!! As Melissa said, let us know how he does on the chief test!
I spoke with my son Tim twice yesterday. We've been working on his flights home for Chirstmas. He is worried about getting the paperwork done for his leave. He said, it seems the times that he can get all his signatures is the time while he is in class. When he called back the second time he was very home sick and worried about coming home. I just keep telling him to ask questions and find the right people who can help, but like a man, he doesn't want to ask for help. Good news is, he has passed all the tests he has taken, this coming week they have two tests. So I hope he does well with both!
GOOD NEWS Tim got all his paperwork signed and turned in!!! I hope they approve it, because we went ahead and bought the tickets so they wouldn't go up in price any more!!
Dianne:
Thanks for sharing your heart-warming story. Your nephew went way of his way to find Tim, as I've been toTim's base and it's NOT close to the "main" base in SD! What a morale booster for Tim.
I wanted to post a picture of the Quarterdeck but I can't cuz I'm on the laptopll...anyway it's just an office building about 4 stories, first floor is administrative and the other floors are all the sonar classrooms.
Tim is really doing good on his tests! His is enjoying SD yet? Has he settled in and calmed down? Matt grew to love SD and hated leaving.....
I think the younger boys contact home more often than the older boys. My oldest calls more because he knows I am missing his brother. My Tim calls home every night. But I'm sure that will change the older he gets. So I'm enjoying it for now. Its awesome that your younger son contacts you all the time from the aircraft carrier. Your Tim may still be waiting for the approval for his leave for Christmas. I know mine is still waiting for his. I'm sure you will hear from him soon.
My son was really mad that his job got changed by the classifors at Boot camp. He really want to be a CT. I've been told after 3 years he can put in for it and if they have a shortage in the CT field and he's got a good record he can change. But maybe after he gets a chance to actually do his job, he may change his mind. Only time will tell!
Sandy I think all of our Sailors could benefit from your advice. I can't wait to hear what my Sailor son has to say after he finishes this first deployment! Hopefully he'll be happy where he's at. He has made a lot of wonderful friends and is grateful for that...
Hey Sponge:
Up above in the Discussion Forum is a posting: "Want to hear what sonar sounds like?" Listen to it and let me know if it's the same one. If not, give us the link, lady!!!! lol
Don’t discuss current or future destinations/ ports of call/deployment bases .
Don’t discuss current or future operations or missions.
Don’t discuss current or future dates and times of exercises or missions.
Don’t discuss readiness issues and numbers.
Don’t discuss specific training equipment.
Don’t discuss people’s names and operations.
Don’t speculate about current or future operations.
My son got his orders, he will be on a destroyer based out of SAN DIEGO!! He is very happy and looking forward to opps. His dad and I wish he was going to do C school, but that's ok as long as he is happy.
Donna: You're right, that was a long wait! I can't believe they held him out for so long. He must have just about been bored to tears!
Dianne: Hooray for Tim!! Don't worry about C school. The Navy may send him to that a little later in his career. Did he sign up for 4 years or 6 years. If he he's a 4YO and decides to reenlist after his 4 years are up, that is one of the things he can ask for along with a bonus!
Please tell Tim I knew he could do it! And tell him if I was in San Diego he'd have to endure a big Navy Mom hug!! lol lol
Thanks Melissa!!! I will tell him. He has put in for a special liberty chit (?) so he can visit with family this Thanksgiving. He will take the train up to Union Station in Los Angeles then my wonderful nephew (another one, not the one in the navy) will drive almost an hour to pick him up at the train station. He will get to have dinner with his grandparents and other family members, then Friday through Sunday is going camping with my nephew, his wife and 3 kids! I'm so happy that he wont be stuck on base for the 4 day weekend!
OK so I asked this question in the Destroyer room but haven't really gotten an answer...when they aren't deployed and back at base what exactly is their job?
Good news everyone, Tim graduated from A school last Friday!!!! He is now on hold awaiting ops to start on Jan 10th. He is coming home for the holidays!! I can't wait. Let me tell you, Tim is so happy mando is over!!! LOL I'm hoping he can do C school later on in his Naval carreer. Hope you are all having a great weekend.
Oh Dianne:
What wonderful news! I knew that Sailor could do it!! Tell him "ops" is a little easier than "A" and much shorter. He'll be done in no time and on to the fleet!
What a nice Christmas you will be having, a Sailor for Christmas that made it through "A" school.......way to go Tim!!! Bravo Zulu Tim! And Happy Holidays to you and your family!
I am very proud of him! He is so happy that there will be no more MANDO!! LOL He should be done with ops February 20th and then move on to his ship. Thanks for all the kind words and encouragement! And enjoy the holidays!
Oh Annette!
I'm so happy for you and your Sailor! It's the best Christmas present in the world! Hug him tight and tell him "thanks for his service" from a Proud Arizona Mom...
A Very Merry Christmas to you and your family!
I will pray that it all works out Annette. My son called yesterday and was told if he doesn't phase up by Friday he will get a Counseling CHIT. Anyone heard of that before? I asked if it could stop him from coming home for Christmas, he said it could, but he would get it done. So I understand the rollercoaster ride. I don't know what I will do if he dosesn't get to come home.
Hi Sandy, gee both in the same fleet and in Japan. Wow. That's interesting about the leave chits and them trying to change the dates to make them look as though they were turned in later. The military isn't the only thing frustrating, Tim's flight from San Diego was delayed so long that once he lands in Denver he will have 10 minutes to make his connecting flight. I hope he makes it!!
All is well, he made it home, 4 hours later than scheduled! I have my blue candle burning for those sailors who couldnt be home this Christmas.
MERRY CHRISTMAS, EVERYONE!!!
My sailor starts ops on Monday, YAY, cuz he's been bored waiting for it to begin. I was telling him what Hoppi posted about their W2's and taxes. He told me to keep telling him so he can remember LOL. I hope everyone has a great weekend!!!
Here's the Quarterdeck. This is where all the sonar classes are held. This is the building that you are NOT allowed to bring anything in or take anything out. (I had my inhaler in my pocket and I didn't get caught, hee, hee). This is also where they have graduation for A, Ops & C schools.
Marla:
My niece and her husband met at ASW and were married on base in 1998. Patricia Guitard and James Rissler. They live in NC now. I posted all my pics from a recent trip to ASW on line and Patricia & James couldn't believe how different it looks ACROSS the street....
Does he know what ship yet? My son finished sonar this past September and is on a destroyer in the Gulf right now. He'll be back sometime in March/April.
Melissa (Tucson)
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Supreme Court Hears Navy Sonar Case
Story Number: NNS081008-10
Release Date: 10/8/2008 8:34:00 PM
From the Department of the Navy
WASHINGTON (NNS) -- The Supreme Court heard oral argument Oct. 8 regarding the Navy's use of active sonar during major training exercises in Southern California.
"This case is important to our Navy and our nation's security. I appreciate the Supreme Court's willingness to take the case and afford us the opportunity to be heard this morning," stated the Secretary of the Navy, Donald C. Winter.
The U.S. Solicitor General, Gregory G. Garre, opened his argument before the nine Supreme Court justices, stating that the Navy's training is vitally important to Navy strike groups deployed around the world and to our national security.
On behalf of the Navy and Department of Commerce, the U.S. Solicitor General, in his merits brief, challenged the restrictions imposed by the lower courts. The Navy's position is that the lower court's decision is legally erroneous and conflicts with the judgment of Congress, the President and the nation's top naval officers. The preliminary injunction prevents Navy strike groups from conducting realistic training with mid-frequency active (MFA) sonar off the coast of Southern California.
The U.S. District Court in Los Angeles handed down its original ruling in August 2007 and, in January 2008, imposed burdensome training restrictions that the Navy determined would unacceptably put the Navy's ability to deploy trained strike groups at risk. These included a requirement to shut down sonar altogether when marine mammals are within 2,200 yards of any sonar source and to reduce sonar power by 75 percent when the Navy detects significant surface ducting conditions, whether or not a marine mammal is present. Surface ducting conditions are characterized by a mixed layer of constant water temperature extending at least 100 feet below the surface.
The 2,200-yard shutdown zone is 11 times greater than the existing shutdown distance that the Navy developed in consultation with the National Marine Fisheries Service.
The requirement to reduce sonar power by 75 percent during significant surface ducting conditions, whether or not a marine mammal is present, will prevent Navy strike groups from conducting training to detect submarines in the same conditions in which submarines seek to hide.
The district court ruling was affirmed by the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals Feb. 29. The Supreme Court agreed to review the case June 23, which led to the oral argument.
The Navy strives to reduce the environmental impacts of its training and to promote environmental stewardship while effectively conducting operations that are essential to national security. During anti-submarine warfare active sonar training, the Navy implements dozens of different measures to protect marine mammals established by the Navy in cooperation with National Oceanographic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA). Beyond environmental compliance, the Navy also is a world leader in marine mammal research. The Navy recently invested $25 million toward several research goals. For example, the Navy is researching the distribution and abundance of protected marine species and their habitats and is working to improve the understanding of the effects of sound on marine mammals.
The Navy must conduct realistic anti-submarine warfare training by using active sonar at sea to prepare sonar operators for combat. The acoustic complexity of the ocean environment, particularly in shallow water areas where the Navy hunts for quiet diesel submarines, makes real-world training a necessity. Even the best simulators cannot effectively emulate the underwater environment. When Navy men and women go into harm's way, they need to be trained and ready.
While the case remains in the Supreme Court pending decision, the Navy and the Department of Commerce continue to prepare an environmental impact statement (EIS) that will analyze training with mid-frequency active sonar as part of a more comprehensive study of training in the Southern California operating area to ensure continued compliance with environmental regulations in that area. The EIS is expected to be completed in December.
Adm. Gary Roughead, Chief of Naval Operations, had this to say in reflection of the day's events, "I appreciate the work the Department of Justice has done in moving this vital issue forward, and I am pleased the Supreme Court heard the case today. A well-trained Navy is key to defending our security and prosperity."
Oct 9, 2008
Dianne
Oct 15, 2008
Dianne
Oct 16, 2008
Dianne
Oct 17, 2008
Dianne
Oct 18, 2008
Dianne
Oct 22, 2008
Dianne
Oct 23, 2008
Dianne
Oct 23, 2008
Melissa (Tucson)
Accidently found this site. You get to hear what sonar sounds like. We love our Ping Jockeys!!
Oct 26, 2008
Dianne
I spoke with my son Tim twice yesterday. We've been working on his flights home for Chirstmas. He is worried about getting the paperwork done for his leave. He said, it seems the times that he can get all his signatures is the time while he is in class. When he called back the second time he was very home sick and worried about coming home. I just keep telling him to ask questions and find the right people who can help, but like a man, he doesn't want to ask for help. Good news is, he has passed all the tests he has taken, this coming week they have two tests. So I hope he does well with both!
Oct 26, 2008
Dianne
Nov 2, 2008
Dianne
Nov 5, 2008
Melissa (Tucson)
Thanks for sharing your heart-warming story. Your nephew went way of his way to find Tim, as I've been toTim's base and it's NOT close to the "main" base in SD! What a morale booster for Tim.
I wanted to post a picture of the Quarterdeck but I can't cuz I'm on the laptopll...anyway it's just an office building about 4 stories, first floor is administrative and the other floors are all the sonar classrooms.
Tim is really doing good on his tests! His is enjoying SD yet? Has he settled in and calmed down? Matt grew to love SD and hated leaving.....
Nov 9, 2008
Dianne
Nov 10, 2008
Dianne
Nov 10, 2008
Melissa (Tucson)
Nov 14, 2008
Dianne
Nov 14, 2008
Melissa (Tucson)
Nov 14, 2008
Dianne
Nov 14, 2008
Dianne
Nov 16, 2008
Melissa (Tucson)
That's just great news! Those Sailors will truly enjoy sharing Thanksgiving with you in your home!
Congratuations to Ron!
Nov 16, 2008
Melissa (Tucson)
Up above in the Discussion Forum is a posting: "Want to hear what sonar sounds like?" Listen to it and let me know if it's the same one. If not, give us the link, lady!!!! lol
Nov 17, 2008
Melissa (Tucson)
Don’t discuss current or future destinations/ ports of call/deployment bases .
Don’t discuss current or future operations or missions.
Don’t discuss current or future dates and times of exercises or missions.
Don’t discuss readiness issues and numbers.
Don’t discuss specific training equipment.
Don’t discuss people’s names and operations.
Don’t speculate about current or future operations.
Nov 18, 2008
Dianne
My son got his orders, he will be on a destroyer based out of SAN DIEGO!! He is very happy and looking forward to opps. His dad and I wish he was going to do C school, but that's ok as long as he is happy.
Nov 18, 2008
Melissa (Tucson)
Dianne: Hooray for Tim!! Don't worry about C school. The Navy may send him to that a little later in his career. Did he sign up for 4 years or 6 years. If he he's a 4YO and decides to reenlist after his 4 years are up, that is one of the things he can ask for along with a bonus!
Please tell Tim I knew he could do it! And tell him if I was in San Diego he'd have to endure a big Navy Mom hug!! lol lol
Nov 21, 2008
Dianne
OK so I asked this question in the Destroyer room but haven't really gotten an answer...when they aren't deployed and back at base what exactly is their job?
Nov 22, 2008
Dianne
Nov 22, 2008
Dianne
Nov 24, 2008
Dianne
Cute Sponge Dawn!!!
Dec 1, 2008
Dianne
It would be great if you new mom's would tell us about you and your sailor!!
Dec 4, 2008
Dianne
Dec 14, 2008
Melissa (Tucson)
What wonderful news! I knew that Sailor could do it!! Tell him "ops" is a little easier than "A" and much shorter. He'll be done in no time and on to the fleet!
What a nice Christmas you will be having, a Sailor for Christmas that made it through "A" school.......way to go Tim!!! Bravo Zulu Tim! And Happy Holidays to you and your family!
Dec 14, 2008
Dianne
Dec 16, 2008
Melissa (Tucson)
I'm so happy for you and your Sailor! It's the best Christmas present in the world! Hug him tight and tell him "thanks for his service" from a Proud Arizona Mom...
A Very Merry Christmas to you and your family!
Dec 17, 2008
Dianne
Dec 17, 2008
Dianne
Update on Tim, he phased up, no big deal, no counseling CHIT. He will be home tomorrow!
Dec 22, 2008
Dianne
Dec 23, 2008
Dianne
MERRY CHRISTMAS, EVERYONE!!!
Dec 25, 2008
Dianne
Dec 31, 2008
Melissa (Tucson)
Congrats to your daughter! Mine finished up in September and left for his ship the end of October. What ship is she assigned to?
:)
Jan 5, 2009
Melissa (Tucson)
If you haven't already, come join us the "Destroyer Moms DDG" group! And there's the "Norfolk Family & Sailors" group.
Jan 5, 2009
Dianne
Jan 10, 2009
Dianne
Jan 13, 2009
Melissa (Tucson)
Fleet Anti-Submarine Warfare Training CenterJan 13, 2009
Melissa (Tucson)
Jan 13, 2009
Melissa (Tucson)
Here's the Quarterdeck. This is where all the sonar classes are held. This is the building that you are NOT allowed to bring anything in or take anything out. (I had my inhaler in my pocket and I didn't get caught, hee, hee). This is also where they have graduation for A, Ops & C schools.
Jan 13, 2009
Dianne
Jan 13, 2009
Melissa (Tucson)
My niece and her husband met at ASW and were married on base in 1998. Patricia Guitard and James Rissler. They live in NC now. I posted all my pics from a recent trip to ASW on line and Patricia & James couldn't believe how different it looks ACROSS the street....
Jan 13, 2009
Melissa (Tucson)
Congrats to your son M of M!!! That's get news. Will he go on to "ops" or "C" school? He'll be on cloud 9 - the hardest part is over!
Jan 14, 2009
Melissa (Tucson)
Jan 15, 2009