CTN

163 members

For friends and family of CTNs - Welcome to all new members!

We tend to be a quiet bunch here but, if you ask a question, someone will try to answer you.

Please limit comments to questions, answers, discussions that are in support of our Sailors. This is not the place for politics or religion.

Thank you!

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Northwest Annie

Totally understand your feelings CMom. It is all going to work out for your son in the long run. He's going to be OK and happy. I don't understand the threat thing either. Some people aren't motivated by that. You are both in my prayers! :-)

Jun 22, 2011
Craig

CMom - The threats are to keep the sailor motovated. They do it because it works. Having the thought of scrapping barnacles off a ship makes the sailor realize that they need to stop playing the X-box and grabbing a book. It worked for me and kept the thought in my head to study more than chasing women.

CTN school is extremely hard. It has to be. What these guys do in the field is totally amazing. To me, having spent 2 hours in a meeting sounds like he will be given one more chance (just guessing). I'm betting he will be rolled back, and taught to relearn the material. Just curious, how long has he been in CTN "A" school now? If it is more that 1/2 of the course he's got a real good chance of continuing, but he will be rolled back to the next class (again, just guessing).

Lastly, the 1% is a rule. Just like body fat or anything else in the Navy. They set "the bar", and you must meet the minimum requirement. Yes, their are waivers, but they don't hand them out easily. As a mom, just continue to be there and to support him.

Everyone has a problem in life. Whatever the problem is, do your best. If at the end of the day you can say "I did my best today", then you have done your job. Everyone in life has a "Weak Link", there is always something you will have trouble with. Learn to overcome those problems and continuing moving down the track.

Jun 22, 2011
prov2324mom

CMom,

Hope things have been sorted out to the good for your son. The Navy is hard for we the moms to deal with sometimes. The "rules" seem pretty arbitrary sometimes. There have been times I have been very angry over things that have happened. There's nothing I can do about it except pray. Later on I can see that despite the pain at the time it all worked out for the best for my son.

Still we moms aren't as good at accepting the different way of doing things the military has...I know how you feel and don't be ashamed for being frustrated with how things are done. The Navy's not perfect either but our sons and daughters learn through every hardship.

If you need to vent feel free to send me a message...

Jun 23, 2011
Craig

mary - I bet the reason your son made E4 so quickly was because he went to bootcamp as an E3 or he was promoted at boot camp meritoriously . Most of the CTN's will enter as only E2's so their waiting time to meet the Time-In-Rate (TIR) is alot longer.

This is the normal TIR for sailors. You can shave off 1 year if you get an Early Promote (EP) on your evals.

E1 --> E2 = 9 months

E2 --> E3 = 9 months

E3 --> E4 = 6 months

E4 --> E5 = 12 months

E5 --> E6 = 36 months

E6 --> E7 = 36 months

E7 --> E8 = 36 months

E8 --> E9 = 36 months

Jul 10, 2011
ActiveDutyCTN

Hi all. Found this site in support of moms when I was searching for something else on Google. I am an active duty CTN stationed at Ft. Gordon. What really got my attention was your picture clockard. I was actually at CTN 'A' school / BDNA with your son when I cross-rated from RP.

Quick comment about the current discussion about jobs and schools. It depends on the school as to what will actually transfer and most schools will list explicitly what they will accept from a BDNA or JCAC student on their websites. Often it isn't much, but there is always DANTES and NavyCool that will allow a sailor to get ahead in a degree as well.

About jobs, a degree definitely helps, but what is really an advantage a CTN/I/R sailor has is their clearance. This is a huge money saver for a company when looking at a prospective employee.

I am currently working towards a degree in Information Systems Security with a minor in Intelligence Studies. Online schools are best in my opinion for someone that will be moving every 2-3 years.

As clockard stated, sailors don't need to worry about what degree...just get one! They will get the technical training and experience on the job.

Jul 10, 2011
ActiveDutyCTN

Guess my last post was to a different thread some how?!

I second craig's post of making rank.

Jul 10, 2011
Giraffe

ActiveDutyCTN.. what you said was interesting. My sailor just started CTN 'A' school.. Guess I'm so new at this I don't understand all the formal initials for everything yet though ;o)

Jul 10, 2011
Giraffe

Have a great Sunday all of you and a fantastic week.

Jul 10, 2011
Craig

ActiveDuty - My son will be head for NIOC Georgia within the next two months. What is the command like? In the local community, what is there to do to keep the sailor entertained? They probably have University of Maryland on base, but what other colleges do they have?

BTW, welcome aboard!

Jul 10, 2011
ActiveDutyCTN

Craig, if your son enjoys outdoors activities then this is a great place. Miles of trails for walking, jogging or biking along the Savannah. Also, the base itself has thousands of acres on which they allow hunting and fishing. Pointes West is the base recreation area that is on Lake Thurmond that has camping and boating opportunities. However, if he is more into the city life then we tell them Atlanta is only 2 hours away. Not much local in that scene.

University of Maryland does have a rep on base, but no classes (what a colleague has said). I personally do online school with American Military University. School opportunities will have to be off base like Augusta State University or online.

The command itself is good. The CO is good at keeping constant awareness of what his enlisted sailors are doing and appreciates everything we do to make the command what it is. The DIRNSA (Director of the NSA) hands out a director's cup every year and we have won it the last two...that to say it is a reflection on the sailors good work ethics and morale of the command, in my opinion. Plenty of opportunities for on the job training, classes offered by the command (many of them "up north" [Maryland]), and college courses.

What is his rank? E4 and below must stay in barracks until a certain capacity and they aren't close to it from the last I heard. E5 and above can get their BAH and live off base. If he can I suggest he stay north of the base: Grovetown, Evans, Martinez (pronounced Martin-ez around these parts). These are the newer parts of the area.

Jul 10, 2011
Craig

ActiveDuty - He's a E5, taking the E6 test in Sept. He's has a sponsor, I forgot the name.

Back in my days, (ie like the 1980's) Ft Gordan was a place that no one wanted because it was extremely old, and dated. How is it now? Do you have alot of CTN volunteering for IA duty?

Jul 11, 2011
ActiveDutyCTN

IA opportunities don't come up much if at all for CTNs these days. Believe, my have looked into it. There might be a slot or two once in a rare while though. What we can do however is a SOCOM tour or NAVSPECWAR-TIO. SOCOM we attach to is based out of the national capital region and SPECWAR is with the SEALS as a Tactical Informations Operator. I've gone up north for SOCOM and my hope is join the SEALS in Little Creek in November of 2012. These are 5 year tours though.

Alot of Ft Gordon is still dated, however NSA/CSS will be moving to a brand new, state-of-the-art facility starting later this year continuing through the fall of 2012. It is nice...really nice. Other than though, about all that is new is a nice gym and a new Burger King. Everything else looks like it is still from your day!

Jul 11, 2011
Craig

They have alot of CTN's in Hawaii going IA. They are double gapping the CTT billets (since CTN's don't have any) to get them there. It's all volunteer, but quite a bit go. My daughter is friends with alot of them, so she Skype's them while they're there.

Without going into mission, are the CTN's grouped together in Ft. Gordan or are they more compartmentalized? I guess what I'm saying (just to keep it on the "down low") is, do you know all the CTN's there or are some placed in "black world" projects never to be seen from?

If you don't mind, I'd like to talk to you more. I will send you my SID, on the "high side".

Jul 11, 2011
ActiveDutyCTN

The unclass terms for the places they work (I'll spell out for those who may not know) are:
Fleet Information Operations Center(FIOC) - this is where most end up
» N3 for Navy division
Network Threat Operations Center (NTOC) - some are here
» N6xx
Tailored Access Operations (TAO) - very few here [about 5 of us], which is where I am, so I don't know very many by name - any of the Navy let alone the CTNs here.
» N6xx
Those on the N3 side tend to stay on their side, as they support "big" Navy and N6 is in support of the agency.
N6 breaks up the CTNs into two divisions so I meet up for quarters and PT (same place/time) and that is about all I get for face time with them.

Sounds like Hawaii is the place to be to get out from behind the desk and see some sunshine.

Jul 11, 2011
Craig

I kind of thought that. I actually went into the site in Kunia and went to all the areas. It was strange to me to see everyone so compartmentalized. When I was in, everyone knew everyone. Nowadays, with the "Need to Know", people just don't associate with all the groups anymore. Heck you could serve a entire tour without know all the CTN's in the building. Strange....

Jul 12, 2011
USNproudMom

My daughter is currently still in bootcamp and PIR is 8/26. She will be leaving for Florida to start her A school to become a CTN. Glad to have a group I can go to if I have questions.

Jul 12, 2011
Craig

sandy - Go visit the Cryptologic museum at Corry. It's in bldg 511.

Jul 18, 2011
prov2324mom

Hi josephsproudwifey,

I'm no expert but I'll answer what I can. My son just graduated in May. Before CTN he was at SEAL training and dropped due to injuries and illness. He was smart but young (19), not a studious type and never dreamed he would become a computer geek in the Navy!

But he was motivated and worked really hard to get through the school so he succeeded. It was 6 months long and I've heard it said it is the hardest school only after Nuke. He is based in Baltimore at Ft. Meade. Lot's of CTN's go there to work at the NSA. My son wanted it because he said there are more opportunities there to do different training. So far they do not go on ships or on deployment.

It sounds like your husband is smart and knows how to study. He would probably do well. I'm sure the others on here with more experience will give you advice too. Good luck to you and your husband.

Jul 20, 2011
linxs321

Hello All!

Just wanted to let you guys know that I am in my last week and if all goes well, will be graduating on Wednesday!!! It's been a long 6 months but hasn't been too bad at all. If anyone has any questions about the school, please feel free to email me and I will try and help you out as best as I can.

Jul 21, 2011
linxs321

there was 5 total that failed out of the school and one got rolled back so we have 14 people from the original 20 and 1 that rolled back into our class. We have a nuke guy in our class that made it all the way to the end of nuke school but got disqualified medically and he says its easier than nuke school but it all depends on how your mind works. If you want to go into the crypto field and are afraid of not passing the school, I would recommend CTR.

Jul 21, 2011
Craig

clockard - That is the best link, and actually the last one you'll ever find from that group. Sadly it goes away 30 Sept 2011.

http://doni.daps.dla.mil/Directives/05000%20General%20Management%20...

linxs - Good to see you again. Do you have your orders yet?

josephs - CTN school is hard, and your son has 1 strike. I would actually have him try to become a Intel officer. In the fleet they call them 1630. 1630 is just like a rating enlisted rating (CTN, IS, MM, CS). It's actually better to be a 1610 which is a Cryptlogic Officer because it is much easier.

Going officer is always the best way to go. The money is alot more, and the staterooms on the ships are just 2 man room. Sure beats living with 50 other people like the enlisted guys do.

Just curious, how can he go STA-21? That is a very limited program. Not many ever get it. Don't put all your eggs in one basket.

Jul 22, 2011
Craig

Here is an example of a ASVAB Score sheet. The overall score really means nothing and is only used to see if you qualify for the Navy. The overall score must now be 50, before it use to be 35. Things are always getting tougher.

Just click on the picture, it will get bigger...

Jul 22, 2011
ActiveDutyCTN

josephsproudwifey - First, I second craig in his statement that officer programs are the best way to go. And with the STA-21 program, going to school would be his job.

Going the enlisted route, only thing I will add are the locations of being stationed. As mentioned, Norfolk and Hawaii are not the only duty stations. For a CTN, the other options not mentioned would be NIOC Texas, NIOC San Diego (Special program with the SEALS), Little Creek (Special program with the SEALS), D.C. (Special program with SOCOM), NIOC Pensacola, and there are also overseas opportunities although these are few.

Special program billets are usually the deployable billets, but not attached to a ship, but rather "boots on the ground" in support of Special Warfare Units...Expeditionary Warfare for us. Most of this is behind the wire so we don't kick in the doors, but there are opportunities for that as well which are programs he can learn about once a CTN.

Jul 24, 2011
himmiemom

Haven't posted in awhile, but well as we say no news is good news. Problem was it was too good to be true. My son called me last night and he said he failed his 6.2 test. He has been rolled back once so that is not an option. After class today he had to go up in front of the ARB for their decision. All 5 of them said he should be dropped. He is upset and feels like he has failed himself which isn't true at all. Tomorrow the final decision will be given to him as to if he will be allowed to retake the test or be dropped from CTN. He is hoping to stay in the CT rate being he was doing fine up until this test and he is more than 1/2 way done with the schooling. He was set to graduate 9/28. I feel stressed and I know he is also. He is homesick and tired. He was spending up to 10 hrs in class and also getting help from some marines in the class. Will update tomorrow when he calls me with the final news.

Jul 25, 2011
himmiemom

My son also said they are dropping CTN's from class like crazy. He has only 6 left in his class of 20 that started.

Jul 25, 2011
ActiveDutyCTN

The drop-out rate is due to the intensity of the course. It is pretty much a Bachelors degree crammed into 6months (minus the history lectures!). I wouldn't say most of those that don't make didn't put in the effort. It really is just that it is a lot to learn in that amount of time.

Karen, interesting story of your son. I too was an RP and cross-rated to CTN in 2009.

Jul 26, 2011
himmiemom

Ugh......Another day of no news from the ARB. I am so stressed out and hoping just by chance they will let him retake the test.

My son said the drop-out rate is due to the intensity of the course. He was a straight A student all through high school and NEVER failed a test. He did mention that some of the instructors don't even grasp themselves what they are teaching which is kinda what happend when he failed another test and got rolled back. Also, he mentioned something about the CTN rating not being offered to new "booties" anymore. It will be only offered to those coming back from the fleet and sailors/soilders wanting to reclassify after two years. Not sure if this is 100% true or not. He is extremely worn out, tired and homesick at this point, but unwilling to give up. He is still going to class and sitting in it realizing it may be his last day in the class as well a completing all of his homework.

Jul 26, 2011
Craig

The U.S. Navy SEALS has an 80% drop rate, and it sounds like the CTN course is the same.

We should start calling those that pass the CTN course "CTN SEALS".

Jul 27, 2011
himmiemom

I LOVE the picture Craig. Gave me a good laugh which I really needed. Hoping to hear from my son this evening. Will post when we find out.

Jul 27, 2011
Craig

~~~~ ALL MEMBERS ~~~~

Please take the time to vote for "Mollys adopt a sailor" so she can earn money from Pepsi (based on the number of votes) for sending packages to our sailors....

It's a really good cause and only takes a second to vote.... Please do it, because it helps our sailors!!!!!

See this link....

http://www.navyformoms.com/forum/topics/urgent-molly-s-adopt-a-sailor

Jul 29, 2011
Sherblond

Hi to all, My son graduated boot camp 7/22 and got down to Corry Station on 7/24, now is waiting for school to start.

Jul 30, 2011
Sherblond

Hi Clockard and thank you...Was just reading about those that are struggling with the intense schooling...my son is very nervous since he's been in PCola about the same...had the bus driver tell him as he was driving him from the airport to the base that he would most likely fail out because he didn't already have his degree in computers before starting...not a good way to start A School...I have been trying to encourage him, but he still sounds down and he hasn't even started yet. Any suggestions from the group?

Jul 30, 2011
momoffour(Ship 11 div 119)

Welcome Sherblond! Your poor son! Shame on the bus driver for saying something like that, I know my son was young, knew very little about computers and though he had some rough times in school, he passed and is doing really well in his rate.I did have a heart dropping moment last night when he tells me there may be a deployment in the new year,that's kind of unsettling but he is excited, go figure! Tell your son that he can it , ignore that guy and just be a constant encourager. I know I kept reminding my son that six months of hard studying would open up a huge life opportunity. Best of luck to your son and again welcome to the group!!

Jul 30, 2011
prov2324mom

Sherblond ,

I really don't know why some in the military feel the way to encourage is to tell them they will never make it for one reason or another! Yes they should be told it is hard and they cannot afford to fool around but being told they will fail constantly is the worst motivation.

Tell your son my son had NO computer interest or computer related college courses under his belt.He was just 19. He had just recovered from illness and injury that caused him to leave BUDs.(a tough decision) Studying had NEVER been his thing BUT he finished the school and enjoyed learning 90% of the material. He too was told he would fail, (because he was X spec ops and not already a computer nerd). Just continue to encourage your son. If he works hard he can get through the school despite what the all-knowing BUS DRIVER says!!!

Jul 30, 2011
Sherblond

Thanks all, I have copied some of your comments and sent them to my SA. I really appreciate your support and kind words!

Jul 30, 2011
ActiveDutyCTN

Just to add to prov2324mom's comment, I have seen quite a few that found themselves in exactly the same position as her son. Not in class, as I went through the old A school & BDNA route, but at my duty station. They had no idea this rate even existed until they were told about when they were forced to pick one...they made it through. It wasn't easy, but they made it.

Like sandy said, they MUST ask questions WHEN the question arises. Everyone will have them, but only those that ask keep up.

Jul 30, 2011
himmiemom

Still no news on the ARB. My son is still plugging along and putting 100% effort into homework and class even knowing he may be dropped. He has gone through a week of not knowing and on Wednesday he has another test. Apparently he can't take the test Wednesday because he failed the 6.2 test and hasn't been allowed to retake it. So, he isn't sure what will happen this week. I think he is pretty sure he will get dropped from the CTN class, but not sure when. He said he knows another sailor waiting also for ARB. One marine sat in class for a month before the ARB told him he was done.

Aug 2, 2011
momoffour(Ship 11 div 119)

MOLLY adopt a Sailor IS A FINALIST AND IS A RECIPIENT OF A $50,000 PEPSI REFRESH GRANT.

Just found this posted and thought I would let everyone know! Good news!!

Aug 2, 2011
himmiemom

Looks like I will be leaving this group. :( My son got the news today that he is officialy dropped from CTN. He is holding till Monday and he will have to go see what is available for his "new" rate. He is hoping to stay and Corry and get either CTR, CTT or IT if available. He said they started out with 20 students and are down to 12 right now and it looks like another 2 are getting dropped also.

He seems in good spirits, but is exhausted and homesick. He is hoping to get some leave before his classes start with his new rate and come home.

Aug 2, 2011
Craig

clockard - What it means is the office that makes that handy-dandy chart that shows where CT's get stationed will be no more. The office is closing, so that chart will be the last you see (unless another group starts doing one).

Just curious, you must be really bored if you looking at a post from July 22nd. If you're that bored, try having more sex.... You need to see the lucky stars....btw: Your husband can thank me later....~ha

Aug 3, 2011
Craig

himmiemom - The CTN course is really, really hard. Don't let this get him down. As long as he tried they will try to give him the option of chosing another rating. Luckily for him, he's been in long enough to have his SBI access almost done. The Navy doesn't want to waste that, so they will probably make him a CTT, CTR, or IT (old CTO rating that uses the SBI access).

If he crossrates, make dang sure he goes to PSD and have his Navy contract modified so he isn't obligated for 6 years. They will probably make him a 4yo or 5yo.

You/he really needs to look at MILPERSMAN 1236-020 concerning "A" school drops. I will post the link to the new instruction, but I will also post the pdf from the old one. These will show you how he can modify his contract. Remember, giving the Navy an extra year is not wise if he decides to stay Navy because it may put him into the Zone B area (I know you don't know what this is, and I too tired to explain it now, but it's not a good thing).

New_MILPERSMAN_1236-020_(School_Drop)

OLD_MILPERSMAN_1236-020_(School_Drop)

Aug 3, 2011
Craig

clockard you got +1, you got me on that one. I bet you were "busy"...

Aug 3, 2011
momoffour(Ship 11 div 119)

congrats on your hubbys decision! I am sure he will do fine! I can't answer any of your question except that they can be deployed ( surprised me too, I thought differently). I would like to know about the bonus too, I think Craig might have mentioned that it was reduced. Best of luck!

Aug 4, 2011
Craig

The SRB lowering was actually in a post that I made in this section (ie CTN) on May 20 @ 2:47am. You may want to read my follow up on July 9th at 9:36am and the next at July 9th 12:50pm.

Japan and Korea are on the place CTN's can go. They also now have a couple PEP duty billets in Canada.

I was the one that said "It could be possible" that they offer a discharge to those that don't pass the course. CTN is way overmanned, and they have the option of discharging the sailor. I have the offical rule somewhere, I actually thought I posted it here on the CTN section but can't find it now. UNDERSTAND, I never said they would be, I said they could be discharged.

Aug 4, 2011
momoffour(Ship 11 div 119)

I thought CTN was just considered manned but not overmanned? I thought our Sailors were safe from the cuts? My question is why do they open up spots if they have too many? that school is so darn hard that I hate to think our Sailors have to worry about keeping their jobs! Also besides Japan and Korea, can't they get sent to Iraq and Afghanistan? With all the cuts, I would think everyone has a good chance of staying right where they are for a long time LOL!

Aug 4, 2011
Craig

There is no CTN billets in Iraq or Afghanistan. The way CTN's get there is they are manned in a CTT billet. It's all voluntary.

Per the CTN's being manned. Yes and No concerning manning. The current CREO show the CTN is undermanned.

http://www.public.navy.mil/BUPERS-NPC/CAREER/CAREERCOUNSELING/Pages... (look under CREO Listing)

However, because everyone is staying in, they are not as undermanned as they were 1 year ago. This is why the SRB went from a 3.0 to a .5

The SRB going down is a blessing for the newbies because what is going to happen is the mid-level sailors E5 & E6 will end their careers at the 6 to 10 year point because there is alot more money to be made in the civilian world. This will open up the positions for those newbies to advance. In about 2 years there will be a total shortage of CTN, and the SRB will go back up. So, yes, CTN is "undermanned", but they over way "overmanned" if you compare it to the old undermanned condition, but it's will not be in the future.

*** Note: I bet I have you guys totally lost in what I just said, so let me explain it my way"..... ***

Suppose you get "A,B, C" sex (Anniversary, Birthdays, & Christmas). If this is all you were getting then if you got just a little more, then you would think your overmanned. But if one of your friends got laid every other day and compared it to you, that only got it 8 times per year, then he'd think you'd be undermanned. It's on based on your prospective. Good analogy huh?

Aug 4, 2011
Craig

Joseph - Because About.com has their head up their @ss.....

Here is the info, it's basically one out, one in...

From: http://www.public.navy.mil/bupers-npc/reference/messages/Documents/...

Aug 5, 2011
Craig

Joseph - Secondly, yes he could be discharged per MILPERSMAN 1236.020

Para 1.b.2

http://www.public.navy.mil/bupers-npc/reference/milpersman/1000/120...

Aug 5, 2011
ActiveDutyCTN

Tour rotations pretty much come down to rotating between Maryland/Norfolk to other INCONUS locations and then back to Maryland/Norfolk for the vast majority of CTNs. Japan and other OCONUS tours do come up, but they are mostly looking for specific CTNs with specific abilities from what I understand. My window for negotiating comes up a couple of months so I'll know more then ;-). Like Craig said, Iraq/Afgh billets are voluntary.

As for the SRBs, I knew they went down, but didn't realize they went down that much! I just got in under the previous message when I reenlisted in April. For those that go to ION they are still at 5.0....I think.?.

Aug 5, 2011
Craig

ActiveDuty - That is correct, the ION dudes (9308) still get 5.0 bonus.

Secondly, I still haven't got my "high side" email fixed yet. I will ask again today to see. Just curious, are you taking the E6 test this time? My son will be vacation, and will have to fly into the nearest SCIF to take the test. It's crazy that they won't let sailors in-transit to take the late exam.

Aug 5, 2011