I've not seen any posts here with length of training for E-PACT, so here's what my son is doing, 1 week of indoctrination, then three weeks of actual training. There was a delay between indoctrination and E-PACT training.
@Ellen 65. Is your son in Illinois doing this training now? How long was the delay in between? Did they offer any ratings on
3-2 day? My son is at BC now. Your the first person I've spoken to with someone doing this now. Help! Haha
kadikaboom626 Hi, yes, he's at GL and just finished the first week of actual EPACT training. There were two weeks between indoctrination and EPACT training. After BC, I think my son was ready for the down time, even though they work on learning how to stand different watches and putting in enough time standing watches to phase-up, and cleaning, they seem to stay pretty busy in the down time, so I'm not sure I should even call it that LOL. I don't know if he was every offered a rating during BC, but, he's looking forward to apprenticing, having the opportunity to try different things in that area before choosing. He's 21, spent three semesters at school in a Welding Engineering Tech major, then was home for a while, then worked a light manufacturing job for almost a year, before enlisting. Though all the time after dropping the Welding Eng Tech program he was planning to enlist, so he was glad to be able to enlist as undecided and have the opportunity to learn/experience more before making a choice! Is your son hoping for a specific rating now? When's graduation?
@Ellen65 Thank you so much for the info. My son was actually regretting being undes the last couple weeks before BC. His best friend just got out of the Navy and told him there was a slim chance of a rating being offered 3-2 day. I'm worried that it won't be anything he's interested in. He wanted DC but it wasn't available earlier, and when they offered HT he didn't take it then regretted that. Recruiter was not helpful. So far my son was led into making several decisions he wasn't happy with. I don't know how many times you can explain the value of being prepared. My son is 24 and should know better but he was sure the recruiter would be more supportive. Hate seeing them learn the hard way.
Well, it is super awesome to hear the process your son is going thru, no one else had any actual info before he left. My son really wants to be assigned to a ship. His graduation is 10/4. I'm sure I'll have a million questions hope you don't mind if I bug you every once in awhile. Thanks!
@pbarb62. Hi there. My son is also EPACT and graduates 10/4. Based on what I'm seeing it's possible our boys will be in training together. I sent you a friend request.
kadikaboom626 (Ship 14 Div 375) Just think, your son will have the whole Engineering area to experience and pick from, with two years to experience/research before committing! Here's my mantra on life "everything you want and need comes to you in the right time/space sequence" (I read that somewhere) Deep huh? But can keep us from looking back and having regrets - which are an awful waste of energy. I've shared this with my son of course, he is where he is suppose to be, and I hope he keeps looking forward to what will come next with joy and happiness - and I hope your son does too!
@Ellen65 I will pass that on to him. I have a similar philosophy. When someone is lollygagging in front of me instead of getting all out of whack and rushing around them I figure there's a reason for me to not be up there. Hope your son is doing great, keep us posted on his progress, I'm so interested in the process! Four more weeks until PIR for us!
kadikaboom626 (Ship 14 Div 375) Four weeks will go by fast I bet! PIR is really neat, enjoy your time together and the changes you'll see in your son - all good! I'm interested in the process too, I'm guessing/hoping he'll work it all out and let me know what's happening, I don't get to organize him anymore LOL.
@Ellen65 Did your son ask you to bring anything special to PIR? Anything he wanted to have for school? Just trying to get prepared, I know this month will go by fast! Thanks!
My son's contract he signed at MEPS was not granted at BC. He decided to sign an SPact or APact contract only to doubt his decision in that whomever he was consulting with said his chances at getting in to his original choice at would be at the earliest 5 months from now. Although I'm still unsure of what is happening (I didn't realize his contract could be denied at BC), I'd like to get him some answers as he feels he is making decisions without truly understanding his choices. Rather than leaving for A school in Pensacola, he will remain in GL. The responses I've read are somewhat positive, albeit his division mates are filling his head with negative remarks. Please help. We were unprepared for this turn. I think with information he'll feel better. I think the change happened too quickly for him to grasp that what he'd prepared for mentally was no longer in sight.
Hi. Runforlife my sailor signed for the S Pact after PIR he stayed in GL in another ship away from the bootcamp ones, he stayed there for 3 weeks for training (seaman apprentice/work as a boatswain mate,but not an official one), in the new ship the sailors were not all undesignated. So they all had different opinions about what undesignated was. After that short training he came back home for 10 days and then he went to san Diego. This will be his station for the next 4 years.
HI..I dont post much but I get emails and wanted to respond ...my son went in SPACT with his PIR 8-2012.He is in San Diego on a destroyer and although they work very hard he loves his job . He is at the stage to try for a rate and assuming it is available will hopefully get what he wants..he had over a year to "look around" and see other peoples positions to see what he might like to try for so for that reason ..among others..undesignated has been great for him.
He has already been deployed once ..and although I miss him terribly this decision to join Navy as undes has been wonderful for him so far !
My daughter signed up for S-Pact. She is already at RTC with her PIR Nov 15! The people at MEPS didn't explain the jobs to her very well. She was offered Mass Communication Specialist as well as Operation Control? I think, and passed on both because they were telling her that as a S-PACT she would be able to change her job if she doesn't like it. Also she would be able to perform a variety of jobs to see which one she likes the most. Come to find out, after she tells me this and I start looking into the jobs she passed on, the Mass Communication Specialist was what she really wanted to do! She has been preparing herself for the S-PACT for the past couple of months, and she is strong, smart, and a hard work, but I have been hearing a lot of negative things abut the PACT programs. I'm already having separation anxiety and now I'm really worried and stressing that she is having to start at the bottom of the barrel, so to speak. She did go into BC as an E2 though. Will this help her?
Ethansmom, thank you and everyone for the responses. So much online is very negative about SPACT. Because my son's contract was denied during BC, we were really thrown when he called (right before hell week) with his desire for more information. He was making adult, long term decisions with little insights. We have been encouraging...all happens for a reason, and good or bad experience in life is worth the lesson. I just hope he is able to make sense of it all, and remedy his doubts--all from having little insight (and negative comments from division mates who basically called this change in plans the kiss of death). I'm being honest. We are all for hard work and service to our country. That's the bottom line. I'm glad to hear positive comments, they reassure me. I hope to keep reassuring my son. He's doing the right thing; I hope he gives his all despite the lack of encouragement from others. He's strong. I'll pass on your sailor's positive experiences. Thank you again.
Hiya me again--..I would encourage you and the recruits ( when they computer access) to look up words ..seaman pact , seaman, boatswain mate,spact...into google..as i recall many things to read plus ask.com came up with a very detailed article of duties.
I love details and was also freaked when i thought hed be doing all kinds of things being undes..but like said before basically its an boatswain mate job just not the rate for it..to name a few duties..they chip paint, polish brass, paint side of ship , stand watch, steer ship, help when helicopters take off and land( assuming the ship has one , my sons does)..all outside deck duties..i hear they do kitchen bathroom low on totem pole work..but from what i hear all do when new..and all the skills listed online and from my son doing so far require muscles and brains...i think they are all life skills worth knowing and to be considered accomplishments to be proud of.
when i saw my sons ship picture from deployment all rusty on sides from water etc..then i saw it all fresh painted to prepare for homecoming..it looked new and knowing my son stood on side of boat in middle of swaying ocean on scaffolding ..to me that took talent and made me proud !
i dont know if i would do it..so to me it adds a notch on his braveness belt!
oops..there are obviously way more experienced people on here to comment and tell more facts..but as to jobs/rates..you have to wait min 6-9 mths as i remember before trying..thats when you look around seeing if any other job looks good..then the job you want must be open to fill and you must test for it. ..so in my opinion best to enjoy the variety of the undes job and keep eyes open listening and learning til its your turn to try for something else...you can only test twice per year to as i recall..so patience is a virtue.
my son is in over a year and still undes with possible test in march..to give you an idea of timetable.
Thanks again ethansmom! I agree with all that you've stated. I had plenty of entry level jobs before I was 20, and of which I look back on fondly for the experiences they afforded me. I'm a better teacher because of the insights I gained through hard work.
A little information about me for you moms of non-designated sailors.
I had planned on going to College after high school but a family situation developed that made me look to the Navy as best for all concerned. I drove to the recruiters office and enlisted right away without mentioning it to family. Naturally, since I did it so quickly, I enlisted as non-designated.
I spent time as a mechanic, a firefighter, a law enforcement officer (MAA), and an Aviation Electronics Technician (the rate I chose) in the Navy.
Being a non-rate in the fleet taught me the most valuable lessons in life. Self-reliance, hold your head up high while doing a good job, it is irrelevant what others think about you or call you, never quit, and the value of a good education.
After the Navy I went to College and while doing so (VEAP era; no GI Bill), I've worked as a mechanic and other assorted jobs. I got my first degree in Computer Science and Business Administration. My second degree is in pre-law (poli-sci), philosophy, and history.
I've worked as a software engineer and today over 500 companies are using software I've written.
Sailors may have more than rating. I've known more than one who've had more than one rating. CO's love them the most because they can be switched as needed.
All ratings tests are six months apart.
Navy has "Open" ratings and anyone who wishes to take the test for an open rating may do so even a rated sailor. Eligibility is determined by time in service at current level.
Any current E4 may take another E4 test though as long as he/she passes the correspondence course for the other new rating.
Any current E5 may take another E5 test at anytime, as long as he/she has passed the correspondence test.
I should point out that passing the correspondence course or graduating the "A" school qualify a person for the test.
Some people do reenlist for another "A" school so that they can attend "A" school in another rating but if you are already in a rating as a Petty Officer you won't be able to reenlist to attend that "A" school.
The Navy has "Controlled" ratings as well. Controlled means they are 90 percent filled by "A" school graduates.
To get into a controlled rating like I did, a undesignated sailor must score high enough on the required correspondence courses for the rating (mine had two), score high enough on the Petty Officer leadership course and the Petty Officer leadership exam, have high enough evaluations, complete all the requirements of the OJT program, and then get recommended by the Petty Officers or Officers in the rating he/she is trying to get into just to be considered for transfer to the rating by the review board on the ship. If you win your case before the review board like I did, then you are still a non-designated sailor but you get the transfer.
Since the sailor is trying to get into a controlled rating, passing the Petty Officer exam is not enough to change the sailor from non-designated to designated striker. Only advancement to Petty Officer changes the sailor from non-designated to designated. Any sailor taking the test may PNA the exam. There are some factors beyond the sailors control determining whether or not he/she PNA's the exam. It may be that the ship the sailor is on has all the E4 billets filled for that rating in which case the non-designated sailor may have scored higher overall than other sailors elsewhere, but the Navy filled the billet elsewhere.
This is why most sailors do not try to get into "Controlled" ratings and are discouraged from trying by others.
Thanks NavyBrat for this valuable information. Kudos to you for all of your accomplishments. Sharing your experiences will ease many a worrisome heart. I've come to understand this misunderstood position by which my son has been placed. He's thick in the middle of BC matters, but when the time arises, I will continue to inform and support his choices. Thanks again, and best of luck.
FYI moms. Your sailor may go to an "A" school after being assigned to the fleet. Check with the career office on board the ship after they arrive. If the ship is too small to have one, check at the career office at the ship's home port.
My daughter is in the S-PACT. Does anyone know where our SR's go after PIR? Do they have A School? When do they get their orders? I have no idea what this whole PACT program entails...Help!!!!
Is it common for someone in the A pact program to be stationed in Japan? My fiancé is in boot camp right now then will go to training in Pensacola. Worried sick that he will be stationed in Japan and that I won't be able to go with him.... any input is appreciated....
My son is at boot camp right now, he has a rating though. One of his shipmates is undesignated and asked if I knew anything about it. So of course I ask my dad who is a 30 year vet that retired as a Commander. My dad did this program! And he excelled at his job. He was a boatswain mate. He eventually went LDO which is a limited duty officer. He actually was the Commanding Officer of the brig in Great Lakes when it was still there. My dad had a great career.He said the job is what you make it! I wish you all the best and your SR's. It is hard work, but anything you want is.
Can anyone tell me do you need a parking permit to park on base. we are going to but our son a car for Christmas so he can get around but we have this question, and if he does what is needed to get the permit. thanks
Majorityrulz. Your son's shipmate has options. It isn't impossible to get assigned to an "A" school from within boot camp. He may request to talk to a career counselor.
After boot camp, an Aviation rating recruit (AR -stands for airman recruit) will attend a post boot camp aviation general skills school; a Fireman rating recruit will attend a fireman ratings general skills school; and a Seaman rating recruit will attend a seaman ratings general skills school. While attending those general skills schools they can request an "A" school. When they get to their first duty station, they can request an "A" school as well.
It isn't the end of the world. As for his duty assignment, without an "A" school, he will be assigned wherever the Navy and his command need him to be assigned most.
Grammy PJ: typically when a recruit arrives in the fleet he/she from recruit level, he/she is raised to apprentice level. Six months after apprentice level (E2), they will be automatically (in most cases) raised to E3 (airman, fireman, seaman) level.
When I was in the NAvy, the E3's had to spend a year at the E3 level to become eligible to move up to E4; but moving up to E4 is not automatic.
In "Open" ratings it is easier than in "Controlled" ratings; and they won't be allowed to get into "Closed" ratings without attending the "A" school. Likewise, it is difficult to get into the "Controlled" ratings without attending the "A" school.
Generally, moving up to E4 is easier in the "open" ratings but you still have to pass the exams.
Angie, I agree it isn't going to happen very often from within boot camp. However, there will always be ratings in the Navy that are "open" ratings. Typically, those are the ratings that need more people in them to fill the billets. It would be easier to get into a school for those ratings than the "controlled" and "closed" ratings. For most non-designated sailors, the "controlled" ratings and the "closed" ratings are not going to be available for entry via the rating exam. In fact, to get into a "controlled" rating I had to submit a request a hearing for a transfer request to the department that had "designated strikers" in the rating I was trying to get into. I won and the transfer was approved, but I myself did not become a "designated striker" with that transfer. Likewise, I did not become a "designated striker" by passing the BE&E correspondence course, nor by passing the PO 3rd and 2nd class AT correspondence course. Likewise, wen I passed the AT petty officer rating exam I did not become a "designated striker" in the rating because it was a "controlled" rating. I wasn't allowed to call myself an AT nor to wear the rating badge until I actually got my crow.
Angie, the important thing is to start the process as soon as possible when they get to their first command. Most sailors are sent to various schools the command needs all or at least some sailors to attend just to fulfill their sea quals.
I did know sailors who came in as undesignated and were sent to an "A" school from their first command. It really is dependent upon the needs of the Navy and the needs of the command at that point.
Most undesignated sailors will become petty officers and designated in the rating the navy chooses to put them in. The airmen will be assigned to work in one of the airman ratings with open billets; the seamen will be assigned to work in one of the seaman billets that are open; the firemen will be assigned to work in one of the fireman billets that are open.
While the contract is "undesignated" that is only temporary as the Navy itself needs them to be working and skilled in a rating so it is in the Navy's interest to help them find a rating they will thrive in.
NavyBrat, I just want to say that some of what you say is true but for the most I must say you are wrong. When my son entered the Navy a year and a half ago he was told go in undesignated and you will be able to choose a job in bootcamp, Wrong. He was then told when you get to your command you can request a "A" school Wrong, You have to be there for 1 year before you can even request/apply for an "A" school. Then after being there for a yearyou have to apply for jobs that are open to ALL sailors. Let me tell you every month he request/apply for an "A" school for a job that is open and has been denied 5 times. Waiting on his 6th denial. He is qualified for the job, he has a letter of recommendation and ESWS Pin and has NOT gotten picked up. It is people like you build the young sailors up for disappointment. It is important for to encourage but not to set them up for disappointment. I am so disappointed in the Navy, it`s not at all what we thought our son was getting into and I caution other young men and women who want to sign. Make sure you choose a job before enter the Navy or you will be sorry..........
Well I have to add my two cents to this latest discussion! There are a lot of college educated men that enlist in the Navy and wait to get a contract for Spec Ops. When they drop or fail for whatever reason....that journey comes to a complete halt. They literally hit a concrete wall.
Well you would think being college educated that the Navy would put them to good use...putting them in the area of their expertise. WRONG.
Many of these fine young men need to choose a rate. Anything that becomes available. Well guess what....the only rate that usually comes up is undesignated! Yep that's right....undes. As if these men aren't suffering enough because their original path in the Navy didn't come true, the Navy sticks it to them under the belt.
Cutepups, I agree. What we are finding is that 99% of the information given to my son was incorrect. What really irritates me is we asked multiple times, double checked when information conflicted. The recruiter flat out lied to us. Undes was not what my son had in mind, and we understand that you take what is available. He is just heading out to his first duty station after a short school and many weeks on hold. All I can hope for now is that he comes out of this with enough skills to find a career he enjoys. I understand hurry up and wait but the lack of clear instructions and contradiction is not endearing the Navy to many of these young for staying longer than they have to or having positive experiences. Very sad.
Cutepups. Sorry to hear your son has had to deal with so many disappointments. I hope he can maintain a positive attitude through all these setbacks. My son started in the submarine program but for health reasons was moved to surface undes. It was a tough transition, he had his heart set on the submarine program. He celebrated his first year anniversary in the Navy last week.
I'm not sure how things will work out for my son in the Navy but for now he has a good attitude. He's working on a deck crew and getting ready for his first deployment. During this last year, my opinion of the Navy has changed. Based on its recruitment tactics, I used to think it was going to help my son gain technical skills that would be marketable in the public sector. Now I'm not so sure that will happen but I'm learning to be okay with that. It's possible my son will land up working on a deck crew chipping paint the whole time he's in the Navy. So what? He's working hard, contributing to a team effort, and learning some valuable life lessons. Important activities for a young man. I may change my mind but for now I still think the Navy was a good choice for my son.
Cutepups. 99 percent of sailors who go into the Navy as non-designated (called non-rates in the fleet) were lied to by their recruiters. I guess the brass isn't smart enough to realize they will compare notes when they get to the fleet.
There are several things to consider. First, "when life gives you lemons ...". While it is true that the contract is null and void due to the lies of the recruiter, fighting it in court will make your son a target. Likewise, the government controls the process. I'm not suggesting you or your son approve of it, nor that you never file a lawsuit, but it would be wise to wait and be happy that he has the G.I. Bill for future education requirements. Tell him to stay out of trouble to protect his G.I. Bill eligibility.
Second, the Navy can only deny requests. They can't refuse to accept the request. It is harder to ignore a request made in writing than entered in a computer.
Third, every active duty sailor is legally entitled to request JAG representation. Carriers have a legal office on board as well as career offices. Sailors on smaller ships may not have access to Navy layers, but there will always be enlisted men and women and some officers who came up from the non-designated bottom wrung of the Navy ladder, and their sympathies will be with the hard working non-designated sailors. Of course, the Navy has its fair share of jerks too.
Just tell him to advise his non-designated peers to hold their head up high and do the best job they can no matter how they are treated and protect those G.I.Bill benefits.
They have more friends outside the Navy than they realize.
meli_gz
ooooh I see, so once he chooses his A school, then we will be moving somewhere else
Aug 24, 2013
Ellen65
Aug 31, 2013
kadikaboom626
3-2 day? My son is at BC now. Your the first person I've spoken to with someone doing this now. Help! Haha
Aug 31, 2013
Ellen65
kadikaboom626 Hi, yes, he's at GL and just finished the first week of actual EPACT training. There were two weeks between indoctrination and EPACT training. After BC, I think my son was ready for the down time, even though they work on learning how to stand different watches and putting in enough time standing watches to phase-up, and cleaning, they seem to stay pretty busy in the down time, so I'm not sure I should even call it that LOL. I don't know if he was every offered a rating during BC, but, he's looking forward to apprenticing, having the opportunity to try different things in that area before choosing. He's 21, spent three semesters at school in a Welding Engineering Tech major, then was home for a while, then worked a light manufacturing job for almost a year, before enlisting. Though all the time after dropping the Welding Eng Tech program he was planning to enlist, so he was glad to be able to enlist as undecided and have the opportunity to learn/experience more before making a choice! Is your son hoping for a specific rating now? When's graduation?
Aug 31, 2013
kadikaboom626
Well, it is super awesome to hear the process your son is going thru, no one else had any actual info before he left. My son really wants to be assigned to a ship. His graduation is 10/4. I'm sure I'll have a million questions hope you don't mind if I bug you every once in awhile. Thanks!
Sep 2, 2013
kadikaboom626
Sep 2, 2013
Ellen65
kadikaboom626 (Ship 14 Div 375) Just think, your son will have the whole Engineering area to experience and pick from, with two years to experience/research before committing! Here's my mantra on life "everything you want and need comes to you in the right time/space sequence" (I read that somewhere) Deep huh? But can keep us from looking back and having regrets - which are an awful waste of energy. I've shared this with my son of course, he is where he is suppose to be, and I hope he keeps looking forward to what will come next with joy and happiness - and I hope your son does too!
Sep 7, 2013
kadikaboom626
Sep 7, 2013
Ellen65
kadikaboom626 (Ship 14 Div 375) Four weeks will go by fast I bet! PIR is really neat, enjoy your time together and the changes you'll see in your son - all good! I'm interested in the process too, I'm guessing/hoping he'll work it all out and let me know what's happening, I don't get to organize him anymore LOL.
Sep 7, 2013
Ellenelle
Sep 7, 2013
kadikaboom626
Sep 7, 2013
Runforlife14USSAZ400
Sep 22, 2013
meli_gz
Sep 23, 2013
Runforlife14USSAZ400
meli gz thanks for the response. Hoping your sailor and you are well.
Sep 23, 2013
Dmaeship12div410
My SR is a PACT Airman. His PIR is Nov 1st, 2013. Ship 12 Div 410.
Sep 25, 2013
ethansmom
HI..I dont post much but I get emails and wanted to respond ...my son went in SPACT with his PIR 8-2012.He is in San Diego on a destroyer and although they work very hard he loves his job . He is at the stage to try for a rate and assuming it is available will hopefully get what he wants..he had over a year to "look around" and see other peoples positions to see what he might like to try for so for that reason ..among others..undesignated has been great for him.
He has already been deployed once ..and although I miss him terribly this decision to join Navy as undes has been wonderful for him so far !
Sep 25, 2013
AngiesMom93 (Ship 11 Div 002)
My daughter signed up for S-Pact. She is already at RTC with her PIR Nov 15! The people at MEPS didn't explain the jobs to her very well. She was offered Mass Communication Specialist as well as Operation Control? I think, and passed on both because they were telling her that as a S-PACT she would be able to change her job if she doesn't like it. Also she would be able to perform a variety of jobs to see which one she likes the most. Come to find out, after she tells me this and I start looking into the jobs she passed on, the Mass Communication Specialist was what she really wanted to do! She has been preparing herself for the S-PACT for the past couple of months, and she is strong, smart, and a hard work, but I have been hearing a lot of negative things abut the PACT programs. I'm already having separation anxiety and now I'm really worried and stressing that she is having to start at the bottom of the barrel, so to speak. She did go into BC as an E2 though. Will this help her?
Sep 25, 2013
Runforlife14USSAZ400
Sep 25, 2013
ethansmom
Hiya me again--..I would encourage you and the recruits ( when they computer access) to look up words ..seaman pact , seaman, boatswain mate,spact...into google..as i recall many things to read plus ask.com came up with a very detailed article of duties.
I love details and was also freaked when i thought hed be doing all kinds of things being undes..but like said before basically its an boatswain mate job just not the rate for it..to name a few duties..they chip paint, polish brass, paint side of ship , stand watch, steer ship, help when helicopters take off and land( assuming the ship has one , my sons does)..all outside deck duties..i hear they do kitchen bathroom low on totem pole work..but from what i hear all do when new..and all the skills listed online and from my son doing so far require muscles and brains...i think they are all life skills worth knowing and to be considered accomplishments to be proud of.
when i saw my sons ship picture from deployment all rusty on sides from water etc..then i saw it all fresh painted to prepare for homecoming..it looked new and knowing my son stood on side of boat in middle of swaying ocean on scaffolding ..to me that took talent and made me proud !
i dont know if i would do it..so to me it adds a notch on his braveness belt!
Sep 25, 2013
ethansmom
oops..there are obviously way more experienced people on here to comment and tell more facts..but as to jobs/rates..you have to wait min 6-9 mths as i remember before trying..thats when you look around seeing if any other job looks good..then the job you want must be open to fill and you must test for it. ..so in my opinion best to enjoy the variety of the undes job and keep eyes open listening and learning til its your turn to try for something else...you can only test twice per year to as i recall..so patience is a virtue.
my son is in over a year and still undes with possible test in march..to give you an idea of timetable.
Sep 25, 2013
Runforlife14USSAZ400
Sep 25, 2013
NavyBrat
A little information about me for you moms of non-designated sailors.
I had planned on going to College after high school but a family situation developed that made me look to the Navy as best for all concerned. I drove to the recruiters office and enlisted right away without mentioning it to family. Naturally, since I did it so quickly, I enlisted as non-designated.
I spent time as a mechanic, a firefighter, a law enforcement officer (MAA), and an Aviation Electronics Technician (the rate I chose) in the Navy.
Being a non-rate in the fleet taught me the most valuable lessons in life. Self-reliance, hold your head up high while doing a good job, it is irrelevant what others think about you or call you, never quit, and the value of a good education.
After the Navy I went to College and while doing so (VEAP era; no GI Bill), I've worked as a mechanic and other assorted jobs. I got my first degree in Computer Science and Business Administration. My second degree is in pre-law (poli-sci), philosophy, and history.
I've worked as a software engineer and today over 500 companies are using software I've written.
Oct 2, 2013
NavyBrat
OK moms.
Sailors may have more than rating. I've known more than one who've had more than one rating. CO's love them the most because they can be switched as needed.
All ratings tests are six months apart.
Navy has "Open" ratings and anyone who wishes to take the test for an open rating may do so even a rated sailor. Eligibility is determined by time in service at current level.
Any current E4 may take another E4 test though as long as he/she passes the correspondence course for the other new rating.
Any current E5 may take another E5 test at anytime, as long as he/she has passed the correspondence test.
I should point out that passing the correspondence course or graduating the "A" school qualify a person for the test.
Some people do reenlist for another "A" school so that they can attend "A" school in another rating but if you are already in a rating as a Petty Officer you won't be able to reenlist to attend that "A" school.
More to follow.
Oct 2, 2013
NavyBrat
The Navy has "Controlled" ratings as well. Controlled means they are 90 percent filled by "A" school graduates.
To get into a controlled rating like I did, a undesignated sailor must score high enough on the required correspondence courses for the rating (mine had two), score high enough on the Petty Officer leadership course and the Petty Officer leadership exam, have high enough evaluations, complete all the requirements of the OJT program, and then get recommended by the Petty Officers or Officers in the rating he/she is trying to get into just to be considered for transfer to the rating by the review board on the ship. If you win your case before the review board like I did, then you are still a non-designated sailor but you get the transfer.
Since the sailor is trying to get into a controlled rating, passing the Petty Officer exam is not enough to change the sailor from non-designated to designated striker. Only advancement to Petty Officer changes the sailor from non-designated to designated. Any sailor taking the test may PNA the exam. There are some factors beyond the sailors control determining whether or not he/she PNA's the exam. It may be that the ship the sailor is on has all the E4 billets filled for that rating in which case the non-designated sailor may have scored higher overall than other sailors elsewhere, but the Navy filled the billet elsewhere.
This is why most sailors do not try to get into "Controlled" ratings and are discouraged from trying by others.
Oct 2, 2013
NavyBrat
"Closed" ratings are ratings completely filled by persons graduating the "A" school.
Oct 2, 2013
Runforlife14USSAZ400
Oct 2, 2013
NavyBrat
Runforlife14USSAZ400
"Because my son's contract was denied during BC" ???
Send email. I need more info.
Oct 2, 2013
NavyBrat
Runforlife14USSAZ400
bullsfan93@live.com
Oct 2, 2013
NavyBrat
FYI moms. Your sailor may go to an "A" school after being assigned to the fleet. Check with the career office on board the ship after they arrive. If the ship is too small to have one, check at the career office at the ship's home port.
Best wishes, and I'm on your sailor's side.
Oct 2, 2013
AngiesMom93 (Ship 11 Div 002)
My daughter is in the S-PACT. Does anyone know where our SR's go after PIR? Do they have A School? When do they get their orders? I have no idea what this whole PACT program entails...Help!!!!
Oct 7, 2013
pbarb62
anyone else have an E-PACT fireman currently in GL?
Oct 9, 2013
AngiesMom93 (Ship 11 Div 002)
Thanks Angie!! :)
Oct 9, 2013
Grammy PJ (Ship 13 Div 412)
I have a question, If a SR is undesignated and doesn't pass PFA is it true that he can't make Petty Officer for 2 to 3 years?
Oct 9, 2013
emmiec
Is it common for someone in the A pact program to be stationed in Japan? My fiancé is in boot camp right now then will go to training in Pensacola. Worried sick that he will be stationed in Japan and that I won't be able to go with him.... any input is appreciated....
Oct 14, 2013
Dev'smom94
Oct 20, 2013
Majorityrulz
Nov 3, 2013
Ellenelle
Well said Majorityrulz!
Nov 4, 2013
pat1930a
Dec 1, 2013
NavyBrat
At most bases, the Officer of the Day's office is the office to contact for such information.
Dec 7, 2013
NavyBrat
Majorityrulz. Your son's shipmate has options. It isn't impossible to get assigned to an "A" school from within boot camp. He may request to talk to a career counselor.
After boot camp, an Aviation rating recruit (AR -stands for airman recruit) will attend a post boot camp aviation general skills school; a Fireman rating recruit will attend a fireman ratings general skills school; and a Seaman rating recruit will attend a seaman ratings general skills school. While attending those general skills schools they can request an "A" school. When they get to their first duty station, they can request an "A" school as well.
It isn't the end of the world. As for his duty assignment, without an "A" school, he will be assigned wherever the Navy and his command need him to be assigned most.
Dec 7, 2013
Majorityrulz
Dec 7, 2013
NavyBrat
Grammy PJ: typically when a recruit arrives in the fleet he/she from recruit level, he/she is raised to apprentice level. Six months after apprentice level (E2), they will be automatically (in most cases) raised to E3 (airman, fireman, seaman) level.
When I was in the NAvy, the E3's had to spend a year at the E3 level to become eligible to move up to E4; but moving up to E4 is not automatic.
In "Open" ratings it is easier than in "Controlled" ratings; and they won't be allowed to get into "Closed" ratings without attending the "A" school. Likewise, it is difficult to get into the "Controlled" ratings without attending the "A" school.
Generally, moving up to E4 is easier in the "open" ratings but you still have to pass the exams.
Dec 7, 2013
NavyBrat
Angie, I agree it isn't going to happen very often from within boot camp. However, there will always be ratings in the Navy that are "open" ratings. Typically, those are the ratings that need more people in them to fill the billets. It would be easier to get into a school for those ratings than the "controlled" and "closed" ratings. For most non-designated sailors, the "controlled" ratings and the "closed" ratings are not going to be available for entry via the rating exam. In fact, to get into a "controlled" rating I had to submit a request a hearing for a transfer request to the department that had "designated strikers" in the rating I was trying to get into. I won and the transfer was approved, but I myself did not become a "designated striker" with that transfer. Likewise, I did not become a "designated striker" by passing the BE&E correspondence course, nor by passing the PO 3rd and 2nd class AT correspondence course. Likewise, wen I passed the AT petty officer rating exam I did not become a "designated striker" in the rating because it was a "controlled" rating. I wasn't allowed to call myself an AT nor to wear the rating badge until I actually got my crow.
Dec 8, 2013
NavyBrat
Angie, the important thing is to start the process as soon as possible when they get to their first command. Most sailors are sent to various schools the command needs all or at least some sailors to attend just to fulfill their sea quals.
I did know sailors who came in as undesignated and were sent to an "A" school from their first command. It really is dependent upon the needs of the Navy and the needs of the command at that point.
Dec 8, 2013
NavyBrat
Most undesignated sailors will become petty officers and designated in the rating the navy chooses to put them in. The airmen will be assigned to work in one of the airman ratings with open billets; the seamen will be assigned to work in one of the seaman billets that are open; the firemen will be assigned to work in one of the fireman billets that are open.
While the contract is "undesignated" that is only temporary as the Navy itself needs them to be working and skilled in a rating so it is in the Navy's interest to help them find a rating they will thrive in.
Dec 8, 2013
cutepups DIV 146 SHIP 09
NavyBrat, I just want to say that some of what you say is true but for the most I must say you are wrong. When my son entered the Navy a year and a half ago he was told go in undesignated and you will be able to choose a job in bootcamp, Wrong. He was then told when you get to your command you can request a "A" school Wrong, You have to be there for 1 year before you can even request/apply for an "A" school. Then after being there for a yearyou have to apply for jobs that are open to ALL sailors. Let me tell you every month he request/apply for an "A" school for a job that is open and has been denied 5 times. Waiting on his 6th denial. He is qualified for the job, he has a letter of recommendation and ESWS Pin and has NOT gotten picked up. It is people like you build the young sailors up for disappointment. It is important for to encourage but not to set them up for disappointment. I am so disappointed in the Navy, it`s not at all what we thought our son was getting into and I caution other young men and women who want to sign. Make sure you choose a job before enter the Navy or you will be sorry..........
Dec 8, 2013
Up&Down
Well I have to add my two cents to this latest discussion! There are a lot of college educated men that enlist in the Navy and wait to get a contract for Spec Ops. When they drop or fail for whatever reason....that journey comes to a complete halt. They literally hit a concrete wall.
Well you would think being college educated that the Navy would put them to good use...putting them in the area of their expertise. WRONG.
Many of these fine young men need to choose a rate. Anything that becomes available. Well guess what....the only rate that usually comes up is undesignated! Yep that's right....undes. As if these men aren't suffering enough because their original path in the Navy didn't come true, the Navy sticks it to them under the belt.
So as a parent.....talk about bitter.
Dec 8, 2013
kadikaboom626
Dec 8, 2013
JAS-WA
Cutepups. Sorry to hear your son has had to deal with so many disappointments. I hope he can maintain a positive attitude through all these setbacks. My son started in the submarine program but for health reasons was moved to surface undes. It was a tough transition, he had his heart set on the submarine program. He celebrated his first year anniversary in the Navy last week.
I'm not sure how things will work out for my son in the Navy but for now he has a good attitude. He's working on a deck crew and getting ready for his first deployment. During this last year, my opinion of the Navy has changed. Based on its recruitment tactics, I used to think it was going to help my son gain technical skills that would be marketable in the public sector. Now I'm not so sure that will happen but I'm learning to be okay with that. It's possible my son will land up working on a deck crew chipping paint the whole time he's in the Navy. So what? He's working hard, contributing to a team effort, and learning some valuable life lessons. Important activities for a young man. I may change my mind but for now I still think the Navy was a good choice for my son.
Dec 9, 2013
NavyBrat
Cutepups. 99 percent of sailors who go into the Navy as non-designated (called non-rates in the fleet) were lied to by their recruiters. I guess the brass isn't smart enough to realize they will compare notes when they get to the fleet.
There are several things to consider. First, "when life gives you lemons ...". While it is true that the contract is null and void due to the lies of the recruiter, fighting it in court will make your son a target. Likewise, the government controls the process. I'm not suggesting you or your son approve of it, nor that you never file a lawsuit, but it would be wise to wait and be happy that he has the G.I. Bill for future education requirements. Tell him to stay out of trouble to protect his G.I. Bill eligibility.
Second, the Navy can only deny requests. They can't refuse to accept the request. It is harder to ignore a request made in writing than entered in a computer.
Third, every active duty sailor is legally entitled to request JAG representation. Carriers have a legal office on board as well as career offices. Sailors on smaller ships may not have access to Navy layers, but there will always be enlisted men and women and some officers who came up from the non-designated bottom wrung of the Navy ladder, and their sympathies will be with the hard working non-designated sailors. Of course, the Navy has its fair share of jerks too.
Just tell him to advise his non-designated peers to hold their head up high and do the best job they can no matter how they are treated and protect those G.I.Bill benefits.
They have more friends outside the Navy than they realize.
Dec 9, 2013