The four digit code and what it means (ie the NEC codes) you get in "C" school

[Craig]

I wrote this recently for a member that I was talking to in another section...  I will update what I wrote for the HM section here...

Your sailor should always try to get a 4 digit NEC code.    They really needs to get a "C" school to get a Naval Enlistment Classification (NEC).  As a quad zip, you are doing all the crappy work that any HM can do.  With an NEC, you are like a specialist.   HM NEC's begin at 8400, 8500, 8700 with some odd balls.  So go here and start at the 8400's.  You will see all the NEC's (ie "C" schools HM's have).  You can also click "Crtl-F" and search for "HM" and you will find all the wierd oddball NEC's too...

http://www.public.navy.mil/bupers-npc/reference/nec/NECOSVolII/Docu...

My daughter would love FMF, but being a gal, she can't.  It totally ticks her off, as well as me.  It's the 2010's...  Let's get the female out there.  They're capable.  

Here is the latest NEC that pay a bonus.  He needs to try to get one of these HM NEC's.  He needs to set himself up for $$$$ later.  A quad zip get ZERO bonuses.  

http://www.public.navy.mil/bupers-npc/reference/messages/Documents/...

Here is what I wrote in the Cryptology group:

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I know some of you have asked about "C" schools that could be offered to your sailors.  Let me explain and give you a little background about what a "C" school is.  Lets say you want to learn to be an auto mechanic, that school would be considered an "A" school.  You are learning the basics.  Now suppose you want to be an auto mechanic that specializes on Corvettes.  Well you still need the basics, but now you need another school to learn Corvettes.  That school would be like a "C" school because now your not just a plain old auto mechanic, now you are a specialist. 

 

Same as the Navy.  You learn the basics in "A" school, then you go to a "C" school to learn a special skill.  When you go to a "C" school, you are assigned a Navy Enlisted Code (NEC) that tells everyone what your specialty is.  To find all the schools offered, you can go to this link: http://www.public.navy.mil/bupers-npc/reference/nec/NECOSVolII/Docu...

 

To give you an example how this works, lets use CTT for an example.  Use the find button and search on CTT.  Keep hitting the find button and you will get to the 1st section for CTT which is 1702.  CTT's have several in the 1700 area.  Then the next group is the 9100 group.  You can even see that CTT's are doing OS, ET, and other rating jobs.  These NEC number are always listed in numerical order.

[Teach]

Craig-while I agree that they allneed a specialty eventually, many, my son included, choose quad 0 because they don't have a clue what they want to specialize in. They choose to work in a hospital to get various experiences, albeit the grunt work, to decide. Then after two years they can go to C school and get a rate in an area that interests them. This way they are not stuck in an area they hate just so they can have a rate quickly.

I thought like you and was disappointed my son chose this until it was explained to me.

[Marcy ~ Corpsman Mom]

Craig makes good points about the virtues of having a C school designation and long-term advantages. The term "crappy jobs" isn't always the case, fortunately, for those who chose quad-zero in order to evaluate their options.  There are quad-zeros who are ICU and anesthesia techs, for example.  I also know several corpsmen who chose C schools right from A school and found they are unhappy with their choices; they weren't quite ready (as txbabydocsmom's instructors apparently feel) and didn't fully understand what the jobs would entail and what they were committing to.  In any case, it's up to each corpsman to pursue their career options and advancement to the best of their ability.  

[Teach]

Thanks for this. Ultimately, it is our Sailor and the needs of the Navy that determines their placement. It certainly isn't the end of the world if they choose quad 0 or have it chosen for them by default. When my son's class chose orders, there were 3 groups, not the normal 2 to do the choosing. There were a lot that ended up quad 0 by default. I would never want them to be discouraged because of this.

In two years they will have an opportunity to look at the availability/needs of the Navy and make an informed, responsible decision about a rating.

[Craig]

Teach - Please explain 3 groups.  Are you saying like "A", 'B", and "C" classes?  

I truly think it's great to be able to work in different areas and see what it's like.  But, I truly believe in 2 years they will still have the same risk of being placed in a "C" school that the Navy chooses (ie the needs of the Navy).  

The only hope I see of them getting the "C" school they desire is to use the Guard 2000 program.  They only can use this program 2 times in the entire time they will be in the Navy, 1 must be upon their 1st reenlistment, the other can be used at anytime during their 30 years in the Navy (if they stay in 30 years).  They will tell the detail their choice of "C" school, and the detailer will tell them which duty station has it opened.  This way they can get that specific school because the Navy has a need.   I know all about this program because I used it to get to Scotland from the Philippines.  

Here is more info about the Guard 2000 program:

http://www.public.navy.mil/bupers-npc/reference/milpersman/1000/130...

[Teach]

Yes, there was an A, B, and a C. At least in two years when they look at the list of what is available they will be better able to make a choice. I refuse to believe the doom and gloom that they are basically screwed now for being quad 0. God has a plan for my son's life. At this moment, it is quad 0.

I was contacted by a corp mom whose son went Quad 0 a few years ago and was sent to Portsmouth where my son will be going. It is one of the top three naval hospitals. Her son got great training there, got a rate after 2 years and is now serving in Italy. Going Quad 0 is certainly not the end of the world. He has received a prime assignment where he will get OJT for two years and will then decide what his next choice will be, based on the needs of the navy.

I appreciate the help you have provided to this group, but keep in mind that your way, although spoken from personal experience, is not the only way to be successful in the navy.

[Craig]

Teach - Just to clarify, I never said there was "doom and gloom" .   

What I said is "I wrote this recently for a member that I was talking to in another section...  I will update what I wrote for the HM section here..."  I swapped out the other rating and put in HM.  Which I actually bolded so people would understand.  

I also wrote "As a quad zip, you are doing all the crappy work that any HM can do."  You will notice that I made the font bigger for HM just to point out that this was taken from another group.  But I do believe it stands correct for the HM rating too, but that's a far cry from "Doom and Gloom".  Just like auto mechanic, any specialist can do the general auto mechanics, but a general auto mechanic can't do the specialist job.  If you owned a company would you want to hire the person that can do only one job, or one that can multi-task?  This same hold true when its time to reenlist.  If you have two sailors that have the same eval marks, then they will choose the one that has more skill sets.  If they only have one opening who do you think would stay if they are equal?

 

What I try to point out to any sailor is to look at the "Big Picture" in life, and not the "here and now".   In life there is "easier wrong ways", and "harder right ways" of doing things.  Yes, I would love to see any HM earn the $65K bonus for having the 8402, 8403, 8425, 8427, 8494 NEC.  I want any sailor to earn more $$$ than their parents.  Any parent would want that.  You can't get the $65K bonus by having no NEC.  I totally understand that money isn't everything.  However $$$ does allow you to live more comfortably.  Most sailors want the toys.   

 

With your name "Teach", I assume you're a teacher.  So I know education means a lot to you.  When a teenager finishes high school there are basically three paths.  1. Go to college. 2. To join the military.  3. To go to the work force.  You could be the one earning $8 per hour at Walmart, or you could be the Doctor earning $160 per hour.  So is it better to be doing the sucky doctors job that pays x20 or the one that pays x1?  To me, I'd rather do the sucky job for 1 year knowing the break even post  would be 20 years.  I could work for one year as a doctor, and  take off for 20 years and I would be at the same point in as the Walmart greeter.

 

What does this have to do with this subject?  What it means is if you got a $65K bonus then that would equal 3 years of salary.  Wouldn't you like to take off of work for 3 years?  But, as we all know, as our income gets greater, so does our life style.  Hot cars, nice houses, and all the other stuff that comes with more money which kind of makes you thing why you're not getting anywhere...

 

Lastly, when I discuss things it truly is base on experience, rules, and facts.  One of my proudest moments was getting a sailor that was slated to go to boot camp as an E2, to actually get E5 within 4 months after bootcamp.  The recruiters didn't offer it to him.  Luckily I caught him in time and told him his options. You will noticed that when I do say something I usually back it up with facts.  You will see a bunch of links.  The reason is i want you guys to know this stuff isn't b*ll sh*t or heresy.  It come directly from the Navy rule books. 

 

How can a quad 0 equal out to someone that has a NEC?  My view is to take college courses.  Get your degree.  Show the Navy you're at the top of the ball game.  

 

The bottomline is it is up to the sailor to make the decission.  Our jobs as parents is to guide them with all the infomation we can to allow them to decide how they would like to proceed.   There is always choices in life, and sometimes they're good choices, and sometimes they're bad choices.  It is up to them to make the final decision based on facts.

 

You're up.....

[Teach]

I am a teacher and I totally agree with everything you are saying. The point you are missing is that with so many going through corp school, there aren't enough C school needs and slots for all of them. I would not want them to read some of what you wrote because they would become discouraged that quad 0 was a dead end for them.

As a teacher, we build up our students and help them move from where they are to where they can be. We don't berate them for choices, especially when many times those choices were out of their control, ie needs of the Navy.

I would love to see every Sailor get the best training and the highest bonuses. Bottom line though is not everybody will. I was just bothered by some of the things you said because we teach our children to take what life gives you that you can't control and make something good of it.

For my son, this discussion is over. There were too many sailors and not enough slots so he is quad 0. He has a great assignment, will take advantage of every opportunity, and in two years will hopefully get to specialize. However, if he doesn't, he will move forward in life. If he ends up only serving 5 because he didn't have a rating, well, he'll deal with that also. He is already making plans and saving money for college work, so he is doing what he can to position himself. He will succeed in whatever he does, however not everyone in life can make the big bucks and have all the toys they want. Some of us, teachers included, stay at the low end of the pay scale because we love what we do.

[Craig]

"Some of us, teachers included, stay at the low end of the pay scale because we love what we do"

Exactly!  You hit it right on the head.  Social worker are the same way.  Money isn't everything.  It's the pride in their job that makes them who they are.  Same way as teachers.   When I got out they had the "Troops to Teachers" program.  It got a lot of the military guys in the teaching program and it counted toward retirement pay.  

I know you said this discussion is over about your son.  I will respect that.  But in closing, and just to clarify, for those that are reading this,  You do not have to wait until your tour is up to apply for a "C" school.  There are many "Hot" jobs that the Navy needs to fill for the HM rating.  Yes, they may have not been any "C" school seats opened at the time, but there could be some later.  

Additionally, so many family members think when they say "they don't have any seats available", it mean no seats.  It doesn't.  Fleet returnees fall into a totally different category.  Since the Navy doesn't pay for those sailors, ie the command where the sailor is stationed does, then they can go.  They just need to ask.

The different "colors of money", which means the pot of money on who pays for what, if different.  The Navy might not have funding, but the command usually has a training budget.  The funding comes out of a "different pot"

Education is the way out of poverty for most people.  Having  a college degree,certification, or skill is what most companies what to see.  While in the Navy, you have the opportunity to take college classes, even if you're an FMF stationed in Afghanistan.  The only new requirement is that you must be at your 1st command for 1 year before the Navy will pay for it.  This education doesn't even come out of your GI bill.  It's funded by a different pot of money, and it isn't counted against you.  It's free money.

Teach, yeah, this topic probably reached it course, but it did make for something good to chew on for awhile.

Here is an official message concerning "Hot" jobs in the HM rating.

http://www.public.navy.mil/bupers-npc/enlisted/detailing/medical/Pa...

 

[Craig]

Teach & txbaby - Not having a "C" school is soooo much like being a undesigned sailor.  I'm going to post something that I wrote for undesigned sailor that I think with make sense to not having a NEC.  (It will be at the very bottom).

For all sailors I really wished they'd send them to the fleet without any rating just to learn the Navy.  But in todays world its not the best thing.  

I know many think after 2 years of being a quad zip that they can get an NEC that interest them.  But that's not the case.  It's all about "The needs of the Navy".  If the Navy does need, for example surgical technicians", then there is no way they will get that school.  They will probably give them the "C" school that is open during their transfer.  Secondly, if the sailor command needs a specific NEC, then they will send the sailor back to school to learn that job.  The sailor doesn't have a choice.  It's again based on the needs of the Navy.   

One other thing to think about is when it comes time to put in the package called "Perform to Serve".  If the Navy has a quota on needing HM sailors, and you have two sailors with the same evaluation marks.  The only difference is one has a NEC, and one doesn't, then which one do you think the Navy will boot out?  Not the sailor with the NEC.  Why?  Because not only do they have the basic skills, they also have a +1 for having a NEC.

The bottomline for any sailor is to learn a skill that they will be able to support a family.  Being a quad zip doesn't allow you to be any different that someone learning a DeVry university. (my thoughts).  You want to make yourself marketable. A prime example is an "Ultrasound Technician".  This job is in the top ten needed medical job.  Starting pay is $70K per year.  It is one of the few medical jobs that you only need a 2 year degree to be certified.  They make $20K per year more than an Occupational Therapist assistant.  

Again, I don't have a problem with any sailor not having a NEC.  Not everything is based on money.  Look at people that are social workers.  They don't get paid well, but they LOVE their jobs.  For me, I love having "toys".  It's the sailor job to figure out which path they desire.  They need to be informed the benefits and risks of their decision. 

Just my thoughts....

Here is what I wrote about being undesignated (mainly read the cheez whiz comment):

http://www.navyformoms.com/forum/topics/i-am-new-here-i-need-some-a...