CTN

Lord, I just read all of this and I'm sick to my stomach! I know I need to have positive thoughts but all I can think about is my son getting booted out of CTN and chipping paint on ships for two years. I would never let he know how concerned I am but I think I will need some nerve meds to see this through.

They don't end of chipping paint. They usually are transfered to an intelligence rate.

Susan, it sounds like something else might be going on if he's at the command we just left. Leave being denied multiple times like that just doesn't sound like the whole story.

All the guys that left the course when my son was there were given IT rates. They were all transfered within the computer field. I also wouldn't worry too much.They have a habit of dealing with the stress and worries by passing them on to their Moms. Then one day they call home and tell you they have passed and don't remember having said anything to you about not making it. BTW, I went through that twice. Once with my CTN and once with my Nuke.

Terryilyn, The reason they are so hard is simple, they do things that rely on national security. If a Sailor doesn't understand in a training enviroment, then they won't understand it in the field. Remember, with this rating you will go to school throughout your career. My son just got back from Ft Meade for additional training. So, if you can handle the stress in school, then you can handle it in the field. Is it stressfull? Yep, it is. Since I have the same security clearance, I went to visit my son at his work. It's actually really cool what these kids do, stressfull, but cool. But I always ask my son if he likes his rating and he says "Dad, I LOVE my job"..... It makes me happy hearing that...
As far as failing: If you are trying, then they should allow the Sailor to select a different rating. However, my sons friend was dropped from CTN school for partying too much and he ended up going to the fleet undesigated (chipping paint). This Sailor just contacted me on my forum and said that he can finally strike for a new rating, he will be retrained as a IC. He's been undes for 2 year 3 months now. What sucks, is this kid passed "A" school, but was dropped from "C" school. CTN was the only rating that you do not get the rating until you pass "C" school. That all changed with the new school criteria. So don't beleive you will always get a new rating, it all depends why you were dropped.

One thing for sure, once he gets graduates he is set for life. The reason the SRB is so high for CTN is these kids get out after they do their 6 years and get the big $$$ on the outside. It's silly to stay in (and this is coming from a retired Sailor). But if they like it, then so be it, stay in. There is only two ways of learning CTN, and that is being a criminal, or being in the service. At least these kids have the "get out of jail free card"... -ha
Just make sure he continues on the mandatory training and he will survive. It's all about motovation...

I remember the first re-enlistment as an N and there was no SRB! The rate was brand new. Of course lots of the jobs are at the Fort and the cost of living is so high that they have to pay you big bucks.

I don't think it is silly to stay in, especially if you are senior enlisted, living in a high BAH area. I know the offers people have been getting salary wise and think retirement pay and those benefits will go nicely with it.

It's not the retirement pay that I like, it's the medical benfits. Wow, I pay $460 per year, most people pay that per month. In the CTN rating you can choose your fate. Either way, either staying in or getting out, you will do fine. And you will make advancement really quick.

Yeah, I was referring to the medical when I said benefits.

My son is one of those who have decided to make the Navy a career. He loves what he does. He did mention once that he might consider leaving the Navy (that was after the break up with his girlfriend) and they offered him a billet in Hawaii. So, he's a CTN2 after only 3 years and he's on his way to Hawaii. He's one of those people who deals with stress well at work.

My son enlisted at 26, so he also knows what its like to support himself outside of the Navy. But I think it has more to do with being able to do things that would get you sent to Federal Prison for otherwise. Not that I know what that would be. It looks like he will be headed for Hawaii sometime this fall. In the meantime he needs to figure out what to do with his townhouse. It looks like he will be renting it out because otherwise he would lose a ton of money if he sold it. He's only owned it for a year. They had originally told him that he would be in Norfolk for 2 more years. Then he got some kind of award for something he did for some one, somewhere in the Pacific region. Apparently they want to work with him on a more regular basis, so its off to Hawaii.

He will love Hawaii.... Kunia is a really cool place. It's actually built under a pineapple field in 1941. The sailors hate it when there is a fire drill because they end up in the pineapple field because that's where the emergency exits are. Their whites are damaged because of the rich dark soil. It totally ruins them. Here is some interesting info on it... http://cryptome.org/eyeball/kunia/nsa-kunia-004.jpg
http://www.innatschofield.com/w1.html

It is may understanding that they don't get a billet in Hawaii until their second assignment. My son spend his first 2 years in Norfolk.

Hawaii was our first station It is very expensive which was hard on E3 pay. Flights back to the mainland were expensive especially since I was trying to get back East.

The needs of the Navy dictates. My son is 1st duty station is Hawaii, and there are lots of CTN on their 1st assignment there. What limits alot of CTN is if they are married. Being married, and being under E4 it's against policy to go there. But again, it's based on the "needs of the Navy".

Juni, it seems like the Navy can waive anything. But the rule says "Members in paygrade E-3 and below with family member(s), will not be assigned to accompanied tours in an overseas area, including Hawaii".
I tell you, I know this rule by heart now. I have a guy on my website (MA stationed in Japan) that has been without his wife and child for 1 1/2 years now. They will not let her go with him since he's not an E4. Sadly, they are discharging him because he can't get a security clearance. The Navy really hosed this Sailor over.

https://www.npc.navy.mil/NR/rdonlyres/BA171374-25A1-4A56-BA05-DC1BD...

Sorry for the confusion. What I wanted to point out to others is that even though you were allowed to go to Hawaii, you were waived to do this. The rule is not to let you go. I can just imagine a sailors wife/husband coming on N4M and seeing a thread that said "We waited until after he graduated from his schools to get married", and then they get married only to find out that they will not be command sponsored and having to remain behind while their spouse serves their 3 year tour. What would you have done if he had orders to Hawaii, and they told you that you couldn't go with him for at least 2 years? It something every sailor should think about prior to getting married, but most have no idea of what the rules are. You were just extremely lucky, it could have worked out the other way, just like the guy from Japan...

Do you ever stop holding your breath on test day? I am a nervous wreck on the day my son has his tests. Only 18 more to go (sigh).

I'm not sure if you guys are aware, but there is a website called www.afvclub.com who works with the base exchange. What these are is unsold timeshares by RCI. They let the military (and their family) rent them for $329 a week (make sure you look in the Space Available area). They share the money with the military MWR fund so it actually throws money into the sailors recreation fund. So, if your ever planning a break with your Sailor, this is a great why of getting a resort for cheap. Heck most people pay $500 just in maintenance fees (if you own a time share). I just looked in the Pensacola area and they have one about 25 miles away, not sure if that will work for your visit to Pensacola.

btw, forgot to add the web address for the Navy-Lodge. It's a great place to stay when in Pensacola....https://www.navy-lodge.com/index.html

Its been a very tough week for my son. He and his roommate & friend have been together since Pensacola. His friend is being forced out of the Navy because of failing his PFA. He failed it last week and will be out of the Navy by the end of the month. Although he was not going to make the Navy a career and my son is heading to another base later this year, it is tough to say goodbye to your best friend. My son is also concerned because his next PFA is one week before he turns 30. So he has to meet the standards for 25 to 29 year olds instead of the standards for a 30 year old. He sees the Navy forcing out one CTN after another and is worried for his future. He so wants to make the Navy his career.

The thing I don't get is that my son is working 12 to 14 hours a day. He showers on base because some times he doesn't even have time to go home. How do they expect these guys to stay in shape when they are working those hours and barely have time to sleep. They have a completely sedentary job and not chance to get out and move.

My son is trying to get use to his new lifestyle at school. He goes to school from 7- 4 or so, then voluntary studying, eat, workout, shower, sleep, and repeat LOL. He does try to call every night and takes Saturday to do something if only just watch a movie. Sunday is church and back to studying LOL! I keep trying to remind him it is all worth it!!

Just my 2 cents.... Having been on weight control in the Navy, I totally understand the game. The Navy really could careless how you work, as long as you keep the "poster board" image. So what does a sailor do? He needs to start playing the game. Defeat the Navy with their own rules.

So many sailors fail the PRT for two reason, and that is the run or the Body Fat. Lets just talk about the run now.... If I were a parent here (wait a minute, I am a parent), I would ask your sons two questions. 1. "Why do you run the PRT? Why not swim it?". Their answer will be "Because I can't swim!, it's impossible!".... The second question would be "Have you read the rule book on swimming?"...Their answer will be "No".... If they are that foolish to not have read and understand the swim test, then they have know one to blame except themselves. You don't have to swim the swim test. The rules state: You have hold on the sides, you can push off the sides (heck, I can push off 1/3 of the distance in a pool just by pushing), you can stop in the water, you can stop anywhere along the way, you can even backfloat the whole way. Geez, I had my whole shop doing the swim after they read the rules. All it takes is to understand the rules, and do it once, and then you can easily pass. The problem is, most sailors are unwilling, or think they have to swim. They don't....

As far as booting people out.... I have two parents on my site who's kids are in the process of being seperated. The Navy already has attriction rates built into the system. They already know x amount of sailors will not pass. All I can say is play the game with the body fat, play the game with the run... If you know the system, then you can beat the system.... Again, just my thoughts....

Craig, I passed on your information to my son. He actually was on a swim team in High School. He didn't think he could do the swim because it had been so long since he was on that team. I hope he wises up.

Beleive me, CT's ALWAYS suck at doing the PRT... Beleive it or not, It goes way back in history. Just watch this video, there is only one CT in the whole group, and beleive me, the CT is not the one running the show...that's for sure!

"Those who can't remember the past are condemned to repeat it." ~ Santayana
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bhH3v4SIqBk

Clockard, never beleive a private website for answers. Use they for guidance to the offical source only. If you haven't noticed (yea right -ha), I will always try to backup my info with the offical rules. You cannot argue with what is in black-n-white. To find the Navy offical publications, 1st find the lasest NAVADMIN message for the subject. Example here is the last PRT that just came out. You will notice the offical rules are OPNAV 6110.1H: http://www.npc.navy.mil/NR/rdonlyres/FCEEE708-C2AF-42EC-8E92-A1289A...

Now go to the Offical Navy PRT manual and find the actual rules. Example here is the PRT manual:
http://doni.daps.dla.mil/Directives/06000%20Medical%20and%20Dental%...

Now look at page 72 of the 167 page manual. The rules are spelled out exactly what you can and cannot do. After reading the rules you will see that you can do about anythingfor the swim except "pulling yourself along the side", and "walking in the water". Beleive me, there is only one man that is allowed to "walk in or on the water", and that's the man upstairs (Jesus)....

Just wanted to explain myself, and say why it seems like keep quoting rules. The only reason I do it is because once you understand the rules, then you can beat them and use them to your atvantage. "Work smarter, not harder"....

Cannot wait until my son is only four tests away! He is right in the thick of it LOL! Congrats to your son Patti!

Hello everyone. First, a little about me. I retired from the Navy as a CTO in Dec 2006. I think my actual retirement papers say IT (but I will never claim to have been one) since they merged the two about the same time I retired. My last three years in the Navy I worked as a CTN in Hawaii. It was my favorite job I did in the Navy.

I now have two daughters joining the Navy and leaving for Boot Camp this summer. One will be AIRCREW down at NAS Pensacola (leaves in July) and the other a CTN (leaves in Aug). I told my CTN that as long as she makes it through school she will be set for life money and job wise as long as she doesn't mind where she lives. I am lucky enough to have friends who are instructors at Corry and many CTN friends. I have given some of my books that I have gotten from the countless number of schools that the Navy has sent me to in order to give her a little bit of a start on some of the background skills she will need. I only wish I could tell her exactly what they do!

Feel free to ask any questions about the Navy or CTN. If I don't have the answer I am sure I can find it.

Retired Navy, My son is strongly considering leaving the Navy in the near future. I would be interested in whatever you can tell me about career possibilities for him. If you could friend me, we can talk off the list.

Retire Navy turn Navy Mom ~
I just sent a friends request. I retired in 1996 as a CTM and know many CTO's. Just trying to see if I knew you. The CTN rating I know about every senior person in that rating since most of them are converted CTM's.
Welcome aboard!

Clockard, It depends which aspect of a CTN she wants to do that may limit her to certain areas to find a job. For instance, if she were to live in the DC area she would probably never be without a job for long. After that the areas around their duty stations would probably be ok. There are others, mostly around military bases but you just have to look for them. Networking can be very helpful for them when they are ready get out by talking to their friends and people they know who has recently gotten out and have found jobs.

Hope this helps.

Craig,
It is very possible that I know you or of you. If you don't me then possibly my husband, also a retired CTO (end of 2005). I am sure that we do know a lot of the same people.

Vicki,
I agree with everything Clockard said. I know when I went through "A" school the person who graduated at the top of the class got their choice of duty stations but it still had to be available (needs of the Navy). They probably don't do that with CTNs since they are so limited with their duty stations.

Hi Mary, that is funny! My aircrew daughter didn't like the thought of sitting behind a computer all day. She wants more excitement in her life and shouldn't have any trouble finding it. Her sister thinks it's great that she can sit all day. I wonder what she will think about not even having windows to look out.
I am glad both my daughters will be in Pensacola at the same time and can't wait to go see them there. I absolutely hate what has happened with the oil and the beaches and that they won't be able to go enjoy them.

Craig, My son recently was injured while working out, just before his PRT was scheduled. Medical would not give him a waiver and although he passed the swim, he was in too much pain to continue. As a result they had to fail him on the rest of the test. Is there anything he can do about the situation? His Chief is on leave and he says the present cycle has ended.

Lovemy2sailors ~ I just posted the link to the offical PRT standards (in the link section above). If they failed him, then he needs to challenge the failure. There is a certain order that the PRT must follow. It's in the rule book on page 67. If he passed the swim, then he passed the entire PRT since the swim is the last item to be tested.

Larry and the rest of the gang...
I never wanted to post this, but I actually run two Navy support websites. Since NFM doesn't allow attachements I needed to find a way to direct Larry to the information he needed. Larry, your info for all the books that are needed for CTN3 can be found at the below link. I went ahead and opened the CTN section up for public viewing for you guys. I don't want you guys to have to register for yet another website. I just want you to get the information. So, here's the link, you should be able to go right in. http://www.navydep.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=76
Hopes this helps Larry....

NIOC GA is actually Fort Gordan Georgia.... Go here: http://www.gordon.army.mil/

I have a question. Do your sailors find the first part of CTN school the hardest or the last part? My son is nearing the halfway point and I was just curious. Also wasn't there a new insignia coming out in August?

I think the 4 test limit was under the old class structure. The CTN school is now a lot longer than when my son went through it. So they have more tests to take before they graduate.

Thank you for the welcome. My daughter, Dara, arrived in Pensacola, Fla. May 26 and she started her CTN class Monday (6/21/10). She was not in holding for very long. She knows there is loads of hard work ahead (and expecting more :)). She is still excited and looking forward to learning this job (rating). We are proud of her positive attitude and enthusiasm to learn. If I have any questions I know where to turn. Thank you, again.

Terrilynn, the number of failed test is based on the length of the course. As the course gets longer, then they allow more times for failures. But, don't ever think it's based on a number. The number is just a guide. It's not so much that they fail a test, it's how they failed the test. The Academic Review Board (ARB) will interview the Sailor, and if there is something outside of the classroom that maybe causing the failure they will take that into consideration. These kids need to remember that schooling is #1. The number of failures is not set in stone, however, the reason why is ALWAYS taken above everything. There is a big difference between a Sailor having family problems compared to someone that wants to party everynight. The ARB are the judge, jury and executioners. You need to give them outstanding reasons why you failed and they will work with you (if it's a good reason).

To add on to what Craig said I recently spoke to one of the instructors down there and he said that the #1 reason why kids are failing out is because they are up all night playing XBOX and falling asleep in class not getting the instruction. He said as long as the kids are awake and asking for help when they need it (this is huge) and honestly trying they usually won't get kicked out. For the ones that are trying and just can't get the information and still get kicked out will normally get to IT school but the ones not trying usually go to the fleet undesignated.

A kid in my sons class was dropped for partying too much, and was sent to the fleet undesignated. I just got a email from him and he will finally be rated as a BMSA in September. This is 2year 11 months since he went to bootcamp and he's still a E2 and unrated. Sad, Sad, Sad when you think most of the CTN's in the class are starting to study for E6. The only positive thing I've got to say for going undesignated is that you can renegotiate your contract and get it changed from 6years to 4 years, IF YOU ASK....

For those that wonder (or care) how much of a shortage the CTN rating is right now. The Career Reenlistment Objectives (CREO) list just came out and CTN's remain E4=1, E5=2, and E6=2. What does the numbers means:
CREO 1 = Undermanned, CREO 2 = Manned at desired levels, CREO 3 = Overmanned. This means that advancements for E4 & E5's will be 100% for the near future and bonuses will remain high....I always keep an eye on CREO's since they're the indicator on how quick your kids will advance. They can't get enough CTN's....Woo-hoo for more bonus money for the Sailors... Go here and click "CREO List"
http://www.npc.navy.mil/CAREERINFO/PERFORMTOSERVE

My Sailor is officially halfway through! He feels like he has really achieved something considering the only thing he knew about computers was surfing the internet LOL!

My son also expressed his "joy" lol about the mandatory pt. He goes to the gym everyday but not at 4 in the morning!

Happy fourth of July to everyone! Proud of all our kids!

Vicki, One of the best times in the Navy for any Sailor is in holding company. Its a no-brainer job and is actually alot of fun since you are always meeting new people and usually get off early each day from work. As far as visiting. Remember if he is still in Phase 1, he cannot leave the base. You may want to consider, if he already has a car, to bring it down during phase 2 and 3. Because they're bored, these Sailors pay a fortune to rent a cab to go to the mall