Discharging ..less than honorable

[Carrington]

Im really scared my boyfriend was in A school and had a little less then two months before graduation and being (SS) he's a STSSA currently but he has to go on restriction on Wednesday which means for over a month we can not talk. I'm really worried just need some advice on how I could help him 

[Angie]

oh yes they are told and they sign paper work stating they understand what they where told.  That is something else that can be hung over their heads..they where told, signed paper work and still let it happen.

[Craig]

BunkerQB - I never said he was a bad guy.  What I said is that he will have a really hard time finding a great job.  I need to double check this, but the rules use to be that if you get a BCD you can't work for ANY company that does business with the Federal government.  It's not only the Navy doesn't want him, it's all the other 10,000 companies that can't use him either.  I don't care if it's the tomato vendor selling to the commissary, they can't hire him.   He is extremely limited on what he can do.  

Again, it use to be the same outcome as a Dishonorable Discharge (DD), which to me never made sense.  But like I said, I haven't read that rule in years.  Things could have changed in today's kinder and gentler era.  All I want Carrington to know is she needs to check info herself and find out the complete picture.  Don't go into this blind.  Love is blind and we tend to overlook things when we are in love.  

I could have sugarcoated what I said, but I don't believe in that.  I believe in telling the person the truth and let them work the issues.  That's why I usually will post the official rules, because you can't argue with what is written in black and white.  

I do think the Navy is going way overboard on this. Heck in my era, we use to have beer machines in the barracks.  As a father of a daughter, I would love for someone to give my daughter options to look at.  God knows she won't hear it from her father.

This sailor needs to talk to a lawyer before his scheduled Captains Mast to hear what will happen to him.  Not just this week, but the "Big Picture" when he's like 50 years old.     

Lastly, I know someone will say "He can request a discharge code upgrade in 6 months.  Let me tell you, that is a bunch of crap.  Yes, you can request it, but I can say about .2% ever get changed.  Look at the link I posted above.  It doesn''t happen.

Oh heck, I'll post it again. 

http://boards.law.af.mil/NAVY_DRB.htm 

[Carrington]

Craig, I appreciate your honesty. I can't afford to have things sugarcoatted at this point. I respect you because I'm the same way. I am just at a loss as to what I can do as a civilian with no background of the military. I understand that the military is set in stone with their decisions and there are plenty of others waiting to take my Bfs spot. But falling asleep in class .. His first and only offense until now he got his punishment he got bumped down lost his privileges had to write two papers on specific topics. He literally has nothing to fall back on like I have mentioned he is not from where he's stationed. He's father is already talking shit on his only son. I'm his only support and I intend on keeping him in good spirits. From your experience you are suggesting I ask him about getting a lawyer... But that's not something he can afford. One of the main reasons he enlisted aside from a passion is getting the benefits and money for a career. I have read up on the fact if he gets a (DD) or a (BCD) most if not all benefits he will not be eligible for. Craig, could you possibly explain what restriction intails? Both for myself in terms of being able to contact him and for him as the sailor on restriction. He has mentioned visting rights on Sundays. Would there be any way for him to talk to another Sailor (a good friend of his who is a second class PO?) in terms of being able to relay how he is back to myself?
 

[Craig]

Carrington - It sounds like his 1st punishment was a DRB.  The reason I say this it the CO never makes a sailor write anything.  They can't.  

Per his father, that's a bunch of crap.  Unconditional love is the answer.   Family members need to stick by each other, within reason.  This situation is far from disowning each other.  Rape, Murder, yea, but because he didn't Narc out another sailor, that's a little over the top.

The lawyer is free to him, however, he might have to go to another base to find one.  The reason is some bases only have one lawyer and they represents the command, not the sailor.  Yes, he could call one, but that's not the same as seeing one in person.  He needs a one-on-one.  

Per the restriction, that is truly the least of his worries.  To me restriction is no different than being on a dang ship sitting in the Indian Ocean and not seeing land for 3 months.  Yea, he will have very limited time to talk to you, but he will get your mail.  If you want to keep him motivated WRITE!  Tell him that him being on restriction is his own deployment.  You wouldn't have seen him during deployment, you won't see him now.  He has to keep focused on talking to a lawyer so he knows his game plan.  He has the right to review all information against him and read all witness records.  He needs to read these documents.  He needs to ask for a copy, if possible, because he needs to keep a record so he can fight this later also.

Remember, I told you that he can request his discharge be changed, it is a total uphill battle, and it probably won't change, only about .2% ever do.  However, he still needs to exhaust all efforts, even if it's a snowball chance in hell. At least at the end of the day he can say "I have tried everything".  Bottomline, have him keep all paperwork!

The PO2 will not want to get involved in this.  It's an unwritten rule to never do this.  He will be labeled as a bad guy also.  How far away do you live from the base he's on?

[Carrington]

Craig- you have absolutely no idea how EXTREMELY helpful you have been to me! I needed to research what was going with my bf and the information you have provided me with is FAR better then where I would have gotten on my own. Especially because you not only have a navy background but you gave it to me straight. I'm going to talk to my bf today, to have all the facts that I need to present him with are as follow...
•lawyer, the base may have one but there's a chance that they won't because they represent the command not the sailor if we must we go to a different base to get one.
•lawyer is free to him
•once talking to a lawyer face to face he needs to know all his possible choices
•he has the right to read all information against him, therefore he needs to read/ and or get a copy of them
•he needs to keep the copy to have the information to fight with later on
•on top of the lawyer's game plan, he can also request a change of discharge only .2% get changed but he still has that chance. 


Feel free to add anything else Craig, before I speak to him about this I would like to have all the facts and all the options I can to present him with


  

[Craig]

The only thing I would say is "The restriction thing is almost like you going on a deployment.  You won't have a phone then, and you won't have one now.  Either way, I will still be there for you".  

Secondly, make dang sure the lawyer tell him how this discharge will affect him years from now.  I haven't read the rule is years.  So I can't help you on that.  All I know is what use to happen.  

Lastly, in restriction you can't have any reading materials.  However, you can have a bible.  They can't take a bible away from you.  Have him bring a bible just in case he wants something to read.  I'm not a very religious guy, but I will say, it a blessing to have something great to read.  You might even learn something that you never knew.    

[Concernedad]

Just a word of caution to those who base their opinion on how things have been handled in the past, this is NOT the same Navy. The smallest infraction can now get you booted. As we've all seen, the Navy is overmanned (for the life of me I cannot understand why they still spend so much on advertising budget?).

I'm only saying this because I wouldn't "assume" some major infraction was the reason for separation.

[Carrington]

Emotions are running high... As it all sets in... He officially goes on restriction tomorrow.. I got a message from him saying he will call me before he 'goes' .. I don't know what to do. I feel so helpless and it's going to be really hard on us both to not
Talk for a month or more.. I don't know at a loss with the restriction..

[Craig]

See page 1, the max the CO can give him is 60 days.  But 60 days is usually for really hard core cases.  Normally it's 45 days restriction, 45 days extra duty.  Plan on that.....

[Carrington]

45 days for his restriction.. Just letting y'all know... I'm worried about him. But he said to watch my phone on Sundays for a possibility of him calling. June 25.. I'm counting down.