Discharging ..less than honorable

[Carrington]

Im really scared my boyfriend was in A school and had a little less then two months before graduation and being (SS) he's a STSSA currently but he has to go on restriction on Wednesday which means for over a month we can not talk. I'm really worried just need some advice on how I could help him 

[Carrington]

Please, is there any way of saving him? Anything y'all can think of that would allow him to stay? This upcoming Captains Mast , there's no way of saving him? 

[lemonelephant]

This is from my Sailor: "I am an MA and from my nearly 4 years' experience, you need to tell him to request a lawyer and invoke his right to remain silent until he has consulted with the lawyer."

[Angie]

If he did something wrong, than yes he deserves what he gets...regarding taking away his cell phone and computer, ect.... those are privilages not rights so yes they can take them away...only thing they can  not take away from him is food and sleep.

 

Not sure what he did, but you will only hear his side of the story...which is 1/3 of the truth or less..as there is his story, the other side of the story and the real story.

 

As far as trying to prove he should stay...sorry he shold have thought of that before he did what ever he did.  He is in the Military...it isn't like when people got in trouble at home with their parents and they gave them another chance.

 

Something elese to keep in mind...is when he is seperated...they show him off the base it is up to him to get home.

 

NOW...if he is not seperated and you are missinformed...odds are he will loose his school and go to the fleet as undes...but he better not get his hopes up that he will be able to reenlist latter as that CO's mast will follow him for most of his career.

 

No one can give you 100% advise of what is going on, as you haven't given enough details of what has happeend.

 

By reading what you wrote...I am going to guess...your bf went to DRB which is where all the Chief's talk to him before he goes to CO's mast.  Reason I think that is you wrote about the seabag inspection...and the Chiefs do that not the CO.  So I recommend you just wait and see what happens with him. 

[Craig]

Carrington - My thought is your BF went to XOI (Executive Officer Inquiry).  The Executive Officer (XO) is the second in command.  The Commanding Officer (CO) is #1.  

When going to mast they ususally give sailor two options, 1 is a Naval Discharge Review Board (DRB).  This is only for minor offenses where a bunch of Chief will yell at the sailor and do minor other things.  They cannot punish a sailor, only the CO can do that.  They also can refer the case to the XOI for review for bigger items.  The XOI can take different actions, but again, he cannot punish the sailor.  If this XO thinks is more serious, then they will refer it to the CO.  He still has the opition of requesting Court Martial, but he has to be totally innocent.  If he is found guilty at a Court Martial it will haunt him for life.  It could be a Federal conviction.  

All he can do plead his case to the CO.  His future is base on what the CO does.  I must say, the Navy is really hard core about minors with liquor now.  I don't see much hope for your BF.  Especially if he got into trouble sleeping in class.  It just adds more to the fire..... 

What you need to do is think about all of this.  I want you to know that if he get a BCD then he is never eligible for employment with the Federal government, nor any company that have Federal government contracts.  Per his education that he paid $1200 for, that will be donated to the Navy.  He will not have any educational benefits.  

So, you need to do a lot of soul searching.  Can you support this man on your income?  He probably won't be able to find a decent job for a really, really, long time.   I know "Love is Blind".  But make sure you take care of yourself and know what your about to get into.  As long as you know what happens, then you can make a rational decision on how you want to proceed with your life....  Just remember, you are #1...  

[lemonelephant]

Craig, I thought DRB was Disciplinary Review Board.

[Craig]

Dang it lemon, you got me.  I am so use to reading the Discharge Review Boards, that just out of habit wrote that.   You are correct, I messed up....

Here is the DRB's that I'm use to.  Now you can see how I messed it up...

http://boards.law.af.mil/NAVY_DRB.htm

(Edit: I had the wrong link in my orginial post.  Here is the correct one)

[lemonelephant]

Totally understandable.
(I clicked on it and figured I must have to be a member of the DEP site to see it, but I still understand.)

[Carrington]

Craig, I truly appreciate your help and advice but I'm going to ask you for a favor once more.. As I've mentioned I'm still new to the navy and such could you possibly break down what you explain to me in civilian terms? I'm currently in School to become a neonatologist . But I'm working minimum wage to pay for school during the day and classes at night. If he gets discharged he's thinking about staying with another sailor who is forced to left off base (I think he said this sailor is like a tech guy from another base and they don't have barracks for them yet) my bf isn't from the state he's stationed at now so he would probably end up going home if he can't find a place where he is currently. Hes been looking into the medical field like myself before he even enlisted. He was accepted into Brown University but couldn't pay so that's why he enlisted. Hypothetically speaking, if he were to fight for a chance as you mentioned he's also risking his future job careers? I'm sorry to ask you to put things in civilian terms.. I just sti don't understand the navy very well. 

[Craig]

Quote from Carrington:

As I've mentioned I'm still new to the navy and such could you possibly break down what you explain to me in civilian terms? I'm currently in School to become a neonatologist .

WTF is a neonatologist?  Can you explain it in civilian terms?  j/k, but I did have to go look it up on Google.

I think he will have a really hard time being accepted into any major medical field job.  I'm not talking about people taking blood or such, I'm talk about excellent jobs like yours.  A Bad Conduct Discharge (BCD) (aka Big Chicken Dinner) will haunt him for life.  It's not to be taken lightly.   

Truly, like lemonelephant says "invoke his right to remain silent until he has consulted with the lawyer".  He is way too deep into this.  He needs to keep his mouth shut and talk to a lawyer that can tell him all of his options.  You cannot rely on anyone here on N4M to tell you what he should do.  We are not lawyers.  We can only make suggestions on what we would do.  It is him, that at the end of the day, can say "I've exhausted all my efforts".  

The bottomline is you, as his GF, need to know how you need to proceed with your life.  If you were my daughter I would tell you that 2 mess up's is not good.  Having a BCD means he will probably not have a good job in a really long time, if ever.  My belief is you will be supporting this guy.  I know love isn't about money.  However, it is about sharing.  The sharing will not be the same for you.  You will be at a totally different playing level.  

The bottomline is he needs to talk to a lawyer.  If he get's Captains Masted, then this means that he agrees on whatever the Captain does to him.  Up until Captains Mast, he can request a Courts Martial.  Again, he needs to make dang sure he is 100% innocent.  The court martial is very damaging in your life if you are convicted.  He really needs to talk to a lawyer.....

[BunkerQB]

I am 100% sure that his life is not "over" or that he'll never get another great job. The military is only one facet in the world. There are civilian jobs out there. Let's assume he will be gone from the Navy - he needs to regroup - figure out what he wants to do with his life.  If the kid was not forthcoming because he knew about underage drinking - it doesn't necessarily mean this guy is bad news - it may simply mean he didn't really understand the seriousness of not disclosing or he was momentarily stupid and put himself in a compromising position. Is the Navy promoting a "We are family and take care of each other but if you screw up, I am going to tell on you." thing - then it puts many in compromising positions.  The others (ones who were) obviously put him in a compromising position. In my opinion, severe punishment is in order (to reinforce the zero tolerance atmosphere) - but discharged?

In any case, the world is full of people who can recover and build a great life for themselves. Don't let this stop you and your boyfriend from going out there and achieving something. Start w taking classes at Community Colleges - go out and find an mentor in your local area - get that college degree - be forthright about what happened in the Navy. There are gazillion things you can do - and make lots of money doing it. If the Navy doesn't want him - fine - he made a huge mistake - take charge - accept responsibility - move forward - make up for it by doing well and living well in the future.

Sorry for rambling - got to go to work.

My question to Craig and Angie - are the sailors out of bootcamp informed about the consequences of non disclosure?  If they are not, they should be.

Regards, BQB

[lemonelephant]

I'm not Craig or Angie, but "Failure to Disclose" seems to be a big issue at BC and A School and my Sailor said that he heard about it quite a bit in his early days as a Recruit and Sailor, but he has seldom seen that as a charge for someone after A School.  As you said, there is a zero tolerance atmosphere for underage drinking and driving; and for someone to know about it and not report it implies that the Sailor condones that behavior.

[Anti M]

The sailors are told about this, but it is never easy telling on a friend and shipmate.  I should  have been discharged a couple times over because I never outed my gay friends.   Funny how times change, drinking was much less of an issue than homosexuality.  Just the opposite now.  

I agree with BunkerQB, there is life after the Navy, and this was one detour into a life where things didn't work out.  Doesn't mean they cannot find success once this is behind them.

But of he can get a lawyer, that sounds reasonable to me!