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Comment by J/J Mom on March 3, 2013 at 5:51pm

part 2 -- (sorry so stinking long)

If she does do this - i seem to be the loan supporter, cuz i see no reason not to do it if she will still be able to get a scholarship -- be very thorough about making certain the classes she will be taking will actually transfer to the university(s) she wants to attend.  My son's dual-credits all transferred as credits, but not all worked as core classes at MU.  MU (as i'm sure all schools do) has some very specific rules about some of their core courses & one of the classes didn't fit.  Another course was also rejected at first, but the community college went to bat for him & then MU gave him the credits & counted it as a core course.

Best wishes with your decisions!!

Comment by J/J Mom on March 3, 2013 at 5:50pm

Ok, so i'm not sure i'm following all this discussion correctly, but here's my take.  If your dd is actually taking "AP" courses, i can't really relate, cuz our HS doesn't have "AP" courses, but it does offer dual-credit courses, which were an additional cost (very cheap - $100/3 credit hours) & additional work, however, it was well worth it for our son.

When our dd arrived at MU, she was about the ONLY one she knew/met that did not have any additional college credits going in.  It was a big disadvantage to her because it allowed her NO lee-way in her schedule.  She ended up taking 9 credit hours during her freshman summer (at our expense thru MU) to lighten her load a bit for her next 3 years. Great decision.  She was a nursing major and pretty much every single credit hour is mapped out from Fr year all the way through for NROTC Nurse majors at MU.

Our son, on the other hand had had the opportunity to take the newly-offered dual-credit courses offered at our HS thru the local community college.  He went into MU with 9 credit hours, and then he "tested out" of two semesters of Spanish.  It has been great for him to not have to load his schedule with 18-19 hours every semester, yet he is still easily a full-time student taking the required courses & a "for the fun of it" course periodically.

From our experience i whole-heartedly believe it is very helpful to have some credit hours when entering a 4 year university, which i would thing would be especially true if the goal is a double major with a Naval Science minor.  However, i also believe if your dd will be entering a 4 year school with basically an associates degree in hand it there is no way it should take her 4 more years to complete an engineering degree, even if she double majors.  The biggest problem might be getting the courses she will need on a timely basis -- sometimes courses are only offered every other semester, etc. 

I'm not that familiar with Navy scholarships for "non-freshmen" incoming freshmen, like your dd would be in this scenario.  It seems i've read in some forums on here that there have been students at community colleges that have tried to get scholarships but have been unsuccessful due to them not being "freshmen."  I would have concern about that.  Tho i said my dd didn't meet anyone that didn't already have some college credit when starting at MU, she also didn't meet any that had more than 12-15 , so they were still freshmen.

One thing i do not understand is what you said ....

"She will have to take 4 years of NROTC classes, and 4 years of engineering - there are too many prereqs for each program to do it faster. The community college can only offer core classes (lower division English, math, chemistry, etc). It will NOT be an easy schedule, and will take full-time enrollment to complete both, plus upper division graduation requirements, within four years. She may add another major, too, if it's allowed."

Almost every MU engineering NROTC major finishes in 4 years, with very few exceptions.  In that time they take 4 years of NROTC classes and 4 years of engineering classes, all the pre-reqs AND all the core classes (tho most go in with about 9 credits to begin with).  If she goes in with 3 AP & 60 transfer credit hours she should have a cake walk doing NROTC & engineering in 4 years, even with a second major.

Comment by Arwen on March 3, 2013 at 2:32pm

She loves her NJROTC course, and doesn't want to get rid of it, and my son is not in high school, he is in college. My point is that even working from the end of school till midnight, my daughter is NOT getting all of her homework done. Her teachers assign more homework than necessary, and the workload is not representative of a college workload. We recently attended an orientation for the high school-college program, (which is free for us) and the teachers said that they don't "assign all the busy work" that AP/Honors teachers do.

Comment by kgrmom on March 3, 2013 at 2:46am

Arwen-  I'm fairly certain we are all talking the scholarship program here :)  That is the goal of ROTC. 

I'm still not sure I understand why your daughter would set out to take 6 years of school for Engineering ? Yes it is a heavy course load to complete in 4, but one semester additional makes more sense.   If she has 60 credit hours to start with when she applies for ROTC that may be a problem from the start.  I know a couple of students that were in school with my daughter who wanted to stay for a 5th year to complete a 2nd degree and that becomes very dicey with the Navy -probably more so now.

It sounds like your son is currently doing the high school/college program you are referring to and having a lot of success with it.  You know better than anyone what will work best for her.

I guess I would just double check with ROTC at the 4 year university she is looking at to see if she would still be eligible to apply after those 2 years.

Good luck to your daughter.

Comment by Arwen on March 3, 2013 at 1:26am

Oh, and one of the big reasons she is going to the college program is to reduce her homework load for her junior and senior years. Believe it or not, her four AP/Honors teachers load the kids up on more homework than the teachers at the college. My son is currently taking the same courses that she would take, and gets less than half the homework.

She has insane teachers who think their job is to assign 2-4 hours of busywork, each, per night, in the name of preparing the students for college work. I graduated from college in 2008 with 3 degrees in 5 years, I know how much homework is assigned at a university! Her current schedule would have killed me.

As it is, she comes home, does her homework, goes to bed, then does it again the next day. According to her NJROTC advisor, she is spending her lunch hour doing homework every day. Weekends are spent working on projects. It's wearing her out, wearing us out. Teachers tell us she is at the top of her class, she she can get the work done. She's not struggling with the materials at all, just with the sheer volume of homework.

Comment by Arwen on March 3, 2013 at 1:14am

I am specifically talking about the NROTC *scholarship* program. We can't afford college. She will get a Pell Grant, and can take out loans, which would cover about half of the expense of university tuition, fees and living expenses. We won't be able to contribute a penny toward her education or living expenses while away from home. No scholarship = no college beyond community college.

She will be taking 12-15 college credits per semester during her next two high school years - under this program she doesn't actually go to the high school campus at all, except for a couple of courses that are required by the state for graduation that aren't offered at the college. In her case, that includes NJROTC. In total, she will enter a 4-year university with 15 NJROTC college credits (which I know do not count toward NROTC), 3 AP credits, and about 60 transfer college credits.

She will have to take 4 years of NROTC classes, and 4 years of engineering - there are too many prereqs for each program to do it faster. The community college can only offer core classes (lower division English, math, chemistry, etc). It will NOT be an easy schedule, and will take full-time enrollment to complete both, plus upper division graduation requirements, within four years. She may add another major, too, if it's allowed.

Comment by kgrmom on February 28, 2013 at 10:34pm

For those of you with commissioning around the corner- Congratulations :) :)

I remember it feeling a little surreal- like it can't possibly be here already.

Arwen: I'm not familiar with any college programs like that in my limited exposure.  I guess I have one question though.  Why would she expect to go to a University for 4 years if she already has put herself through so many college level courses?  Isn't that the reason to get the jump start with the community college?  Engineering generally doesn't take longer than 4 years.

Comment by Arwen on February 28, 2013 at 2:29am

Did any of your Midshipmen attend one of those "college during high school" programs where they graduate high school with an AS/AA transfer degree? My daughter intends to go NROTC, but also wants to attend her junior and senior years of high school at the local community college. ALL of the classes are guaranteed transfer as core courses to the universities she plans to apply to. The universities consider them to be freshmen for acceptance, but transfer as a junior in college. Do you know what the Navy would consider her to be? She expects to go four years to a university; she is majoring in engineering which she expects to take extra time.

Comment by Sweet*Southern*Lady on February 27, 2013 at 10:43pm

I love him getting ready for commissioning!! First steps towards the aviation pipe done!  He got medically cleared yesterday. Today he got an email needing to fill out what month he wanted to move and what not!! 

Comment by bora's mom on February 13, 2013 at 4:25am

Ship selection tomorrow. Her unit has two mids going SWO. They are a small unit. I think they started with 30+ and will graduate 10 including a couple of fifth year people. Hard to say where she'll end up. Off on another adventure.

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