Honesty...Not The Best Policy

[Nicholas' Mama (ship 12 div 295)]

At eight thirty last night they striped my sons name patch off. because he was honest. Answering a question asked by people he trusted. They told everybody in his command that they could be honest and that nothing would come of it so when asked, he told them he smoked legal spice prior to his enlistment...What is going on right now? my stomach is turning with anger towards them and hurt for my son. he was so upset when he called to give me the news~and i'm thinking at first when i hear his voice, this is my phone call I've been waiting for, for so long.only for that phone call to be the total opposite, of what it should have been. like the letter i got today, which was mailed this past Sunday or Monday telling me how he past his first test and how their are 84 in his division and only 4 of them past. This is so unbelievable to me! Why would they do that to a nineteen year old boy who volunteered to join the navy. like his dad. a decision he made back in high school. and not to mention trying to accomplish something of his life, and to do it in a good way. By Serving his country. but you can believe this is not over. we have already contacted an attorney to look into this, and come to find out this may very well be a part of something they do. its called "Crunching Numbers". too many recruits, so they look/make up reason to ship out! my husband is on navy dads sharing his thoughts on this as well. Being a NAVY VETERAN himself is totally disgusted. we are not very proud of our u s navy right now. so so sad. devastated for my son. a mom should never have to hear such pain coming from her sons' voice. a son who as always told the truth, to do the right thing. had a job at Winn Dixie here in Tampa for 5 years and does not do drugs. what on earth are they thinking. do they not realize how horribly this could effect a young man like this, who has always done right by himself and others. always doing the right thing and making good choices for the most part. really good kid here.and not because he is my son.because he is! and this is his pay back. this could ruin his life forever emotionally. God please be there for my son right now more than ever! please keep my in your Prayers, thank you  #disgustedwiththeusnavy

[abbyblue]

Spice and most synthetic cannabinoid substances are currently legal in the United States, with the exceptions of Kansas and Kentucky; laws to ban synthetic cannabinoid substances are currently pending in Alabama, Florida,Georgia, Illinois, Louisiana, Missouri, New York,Tennessee, and Utah The Navy .warned sailors in March 2010 that Spice was Illegal for military personnel to use or posses.

[abbyblue]

http://www.celebstoner.com/201102045760/news/drug-bust-news/navy-bu...

[abbyblue]

the Navy has separated 1,374 Sailors in FY09; 1,308 Sailors in FY10; and 302 Sailors during the first quarter of FY11, for drug abuse. These unexpected losses negatively affect our commands' manning levels, which in turn affects the commands' operational and warfighter readiness. The Navy's policy on drug abuse is simple and clear � zero tolerance, and there are no second chances.

NAVADMIN 108/10 states the following on drug abuse:

'Drug abuse includes the wrongful use, possession, manufacture, or distribution of a controlled substance. Drug abuse also includes the unlawful use of controlled substance analogues (designer drugs), natural substances (e.g., fungi, excretions), chemicals (e.g., chemicals wrongfully used as inhalants), propellants and/or prescribed or over-the-counter drugs or pharmaceutical compounds with the intent to induce intoxication, excitement, or stupefaction of the central nervous system, and will subject the violator to punitive action under the UCMJ and/or adverse administrative action.'

Some examples of substances mentioned above where the wrongful use constitutes drug abuse includes, but is not limited to the following:

- Products that contain synthetic cannabinoid compounds, such as "Spice," genie, blaze, dream, ex-ses, spark, fusion, dark knight, yukatan fire, and K2.

- Natural substances such as salvia divinorum and mushrooms.

- Common items abused by inhaling or huffing, such as Dust Off, glue, paint thinner and gasoline.

- Over-the-counter products such as Robitussin and Coricidin HBP.

- Prescription medications such as Oxycodone, Vicodin, Adderall, and Valium.

If you didn't know, 'Spice' is a mixture of natural herbs and synthetic cannabinoids, that when smoked, produce a marijuana-like 'high' that decreases motor skills, impairs coordination and concentration, and effects short-term memory and senses. The effects of these substance is unpredictable when combined with alcohol, and since the chemical blends are continuously manipulated and the strength of the synthetic chemical used is unknown, there is no way to know what you are getting in the drugs nor what the long-term health risks are if used.

Some of the side effects from these drugs included uncontrolled vomiting, excessive sweating, flushed skin, increased heart rate and high blood pressure, and loss of consciousness. If this sounds like a good time to you, then go ahead and hand over your rank and paycheck, and possibly your life.

Bottom line: The use and even just the possession of 'Spice,' herbal products, designer drugs, chemicals used for huffing, salvia divinorum, or products containing synthetic cannabinoid compounds are prohibited. Leadership, along with Naval Criminal Investigative Service, is aggressively working to catch personnel who are possessing, using, or distributing drugs; and when you get caught, your career will be over.

Drug abuse goes against our Navy's core values and ethos, and it is a threat to lives, unit and mission readiness and morale. It is every Sailor's responsibility to deter drug abuse. If you do the crime, you will do the time � remember zero tolerance and no second chances.

[cinder]

Was this asked of his whole division? Was it done individually? Just seems odd that half way through BC they would do that.

[Nicholas' Mama (ship 12 div 295)]

thank you for your comments and good wishes~and yes cinder 5, i believe it was the whole division~and was a time of truth or something to that effect~and i understand everything that you are saying abby blue and appreciate it~but i believe the facts to be~this was before his enlistment and it wasn't/maybe even still isn't illegal~so when he was asked~have you done any illegal drugs~and answer no~that is not lying or being dishonest~i for 1 and against spice~especially after hearing the stories~and br549, I'm not so sure he was asked about spice before that~what is most bothersome is that their telling these young men~it's truth time~or how ever they put it~and that there will be no repercussions~and i was taught that your word is your word~it means everything~and we raised our 4 sons that way~and if that isn't the worst form of dishonesty~i don't know what is~my son was forming a brotherhood kind of relationship with his division and petty officers~you know that teamwork and all they want to instill in you~developing trust in someone he thought he could trust and had just told them to be honest~i mean really~seems to me~there is something very wrong here~or am i just being a blind mom~thanks again for all your inputs :)  

[happyfeet(ship 09/Div 288)]

I'm sorry, I'm not understanding. The moment of truth is at beginning of boot camp. How long was your SR in BC when they asked him this?

 

[Nicholas' Mama (ship 12 div 295)]

well happyfeet~he went in on july 23~and i'm not sure when they asked~but am sure that they striped his name~the night before last~i will have to ask next time he calls~cause that phone call was only about 20 minutes~and of course i guess i didn't ask all these questions~cause i was so upset for him~he was beside himself~hopefully today~i'm getting ready for work~and will get back to this~when i get home from work~or hear from him again~thanks again~until later.

[Craig]

I hate when these types of questions come up, because it always ends up that the messenger is the one that always gets hammered. However,  I think you deserve an answer, so I will respond.  Please don't kill the messenger.

I am the admin for a deppers forum.  We tell all the deppers that if you stand up at the moment of truth, then about 95% of you will be coming immediately back home.  If your son would have disclosed this prior to going to boot camp, then it would have been "water under the bridge".  They wouldn't have cared. He wouldn't have had to stand up. However, when sailors remember stuff at the last minute, then the Navy is afraid they might be not disclosing other things.  You are already labeled. 

Per the "they could be honest and that nothing would come of it".  Yes, they have the right to tell the future sailors this.  It's is similar to when drug dealers ask undercover cops if they are law enforcement officers, thinking that if the cop say No, then they could get out of it because of entrapment.  This is a false rumor that continually gets past around.  So when they ask these future sailors to stand up at the Moment of Truth by saying "Nothing will happen", they are investigating, and have the legal right to do so.  

The bottom line is if you stand up at the moment of truth, then more than likely you will be coming home.   

[kdmac1]

I am so sorry for you and your SR.  I do believe as you that if they asked for the truth and you give it to them they should not hold it against you.  Sounds as if they made him feel comfortable and that his answer would not negatively effect him which is wrong in my book.  Good luck I hope it all works out

[GraceRae<3]

My husbands recruiter told him about this. they pre questioned him similar questions to the "moment of truth" and told him if he stood up during this time period or raised his hand he would be coming home and pretty much guarenteed to not able to participate in the military ever again. They said they will make you feel suepr comfortable like nothing will happen to you if you do say yes to any of the questions but to not believe it and if there was something hubby had done or anything then he needed to tell the recruiters before leaving.. Im sorry this has happened to your son and Im sorry he wasnt warned about it before or was encouraged to tell the recruiters about before he left for camp. :( Prayers for your family!!