Comment

Comment by Arwen on October 2, 2010 at 12:59am

I was in the Navy a LONG time ago, but I wasn't undes, I was a Hull Technician and cross-rated (changed jobs) to Damage Control. My son is undes, and I'm the "research queen" to learn what I don't already know. My general Navy knowledge plus my research produces a lot of answers.

As far as undesignated sailors' "social status," you're right. I'm going to be brutally honest here, from the point of view of former sailor.

Undesignated status is very much looked down upon by most sailors. That's because historically many undes were "dropped" from schools and walk onto their ship with a "failure" already under their belt, or they were very low-scoring individuals who were looked down on for their perceived lack of intelligence. There are nicknames for every group in the Navy, and the undes (and boatswains' mates) have a particularly unflattering nickname.

Frankly, on my ship, the undes deck crew members seemed to always be on "restriction" or being outprocessed due to alcohol or drug use, general attitude problems or, ahem, sexual misbehavior. Most of them (whom I knew better than I wanted to because DC division shared a berthing (sleeping) compartment with them) got in the Navy on legal waivers or had other problems *before* joining the Navy. The Navy was a lot more desperate for sailors back then, most of them would not even get past the recruiters' office these days.

However, with the lack of space in schools, in recent years the average "undes" sailor is a very different kind of person. With so few slots available and the Navy's standards so high, the quality of the undes sailor has improved dramatically. Many new sailors choose undes because they want the adventure that goes with it, or they are high-scoring, upright individuals who are simply looking for any way to get into the Navy. It's not as much something to "fall to" as it once was.

But it's still the Navy's social equivalent of getting a GED instead of a diploma.

For the motivated sailor, it's a temporary affliction. Such as sailor can earn his or her way to a more respected slot in a year or less. Undes isn't forever.

Comment by ladypinkhatter on October 1, 2010 at 10:15pm

Thank you Arwen. I was getting a funny feeling that being an undes was a little frowned upon (in and out of the military). Were you an undes at one time? Where did you get this knowledge and wisdom about undesignated and thank you again for sharing it with us.

Comment by Arwen on October 1, 2010 at 5:41pm

Oh, regarding tattoos, I forgot one thing. Sailors who had "sleeve" tattoos before the new uniforms were introduced are likely "grandfathered," - they got the tattoo before the uniforms, and therefore the rules, were changed. So your son will still see some sailors who have below-the-elbow tattoos, but he will not be able to get a new one.

Comment by Arwen on October 1, 2010 at 5:37pm

No, if she's assigned to a drydocked ship, she will serve "on" that ship. When ships are drydocked the crew is assigned to barracks on base, and many work out of an office building, usually near the ship. Most of the work on the ship is done by civilian contractors, but some sailors continue performing basic maintenance on the ship itself.

The only undesignated sailor I know of who was assigned to a drydocked ship ended up doing yeoman (secretarial/filing/office) duties.

Comment by MKL K'BUNK ~ Mom Of Bill on October 1, 2010 at 2:50pm

Hey, We were told that the Theodore Roosevelt is drydock'd for re-fit process. Sons girlfriend, an undesignated sailor, will report to that ship in norfolk after A school in GLakes. Will she be re-issued orders to different ship or wait it out with duty around the re-fir process?

Comment by Arwen on October 1, 2010 at 12:15pm

Here's the official Navy regulation regarding tattoos:

(a) Tattoos/body art/brands. No tattoos/body art/brands on the head, face, neck, or scalp. Tattoos/body art/brands elsewhere on the body that are prejudicial to good order, discipline and morale or are of a nature to bring discredit upon the Navy are prohibited. For example, tattoos/body art/brands that are excessive, obscene, sexually explicit or advocate or symbolize sex, gender, racial, religious, ethnic or national origin discrimination are prohibited. In addition, tattoos/body art/brands that advocate or symbolize gang affiliation, supremacist or extremist groups, or drug use are prohibited. Tattoos/body art/brands will not be visible through uniform clothing. Waivers may be requested for prior service and existing tattoos from the Chief of Naval Operations.

In the "old days" all uniforms had a long-sleeve option, sailors with "sleeve" tattoos would simply wear long-sleeve uniforms all the time so that their tattoo did not show. But recently the service dress uniform underwent a change, it is only available in short sleeves. Since no tattoos can show while in uniform, that means that tattoos cannot be below the elbow, because it would be visible when wearing the service dress uniform.

Comment by Arwen on October 1, 2010 at 11:49am

It's possible that she could end up on a ship that is in drydock, but that's pretty unusual. Unless you mean shore duty. Shore duty for undesignated sailors is equally unusual.

The "fleet" is the ships - sea duty. Most undesignated sailors begin with the simple tasks of making a ship do what it does. This is where the vast majority of undesignated sailors end up, doing the many simple tasks that must be done to keep a ship going.

Shore duty is the support roles on land bases, everything from supply to technical to mechanical to management (someone has to do the paperwork!). There aren't a lot of "unskilled labor" jobs available on shore bases, so undesignated sailors are rarely assigned there.

Comment by ladypinkhatter on October 1, 2010 at 11:27am

Arwen- doe being on a fleet mean that she will not be drydocked?

Julie- my recruit wanted tats at 14. I told her she had to wait until she could sign consent for herself (that gave me 4 years to drill in her head that she needed to put them in discreet places for employment purposes and future opportunities). Before she joined the Navy, my god-son (who is in the Army) couldn't even get in the Navy because of his tats (he has them all over) so that will deter my recruit from putting tats in undiscreet places. From what I understand, and Arwen you could help me with this, there are certain ratings in the Navy where full sleeve tats would not be acceptable such a recruiter. Good luck.

Comment by Arwen on October 1, 2010 at 12:12am

All sailors earn 2.5 days of leave for every month they serve. Once they earn it, sailors can take that leave when they want to - mostly. They do have to request their leave-time in advance, but not too far in advance. If there are too many requesting leave at that time, or if the ship can't spare them at that time, they can request a different date.

Most sailors take about 10-days leave after seamanship school, but before reporting to their first duty station. It takes about 6 months after that for sailors to accrue enough leave time to be worth it. Then they just have to find a time-slot that suits them AND the command.

It's a bit harder when they are stationed overseas. Tickets home are expensive and they lose 2-4 days of that leave to travel time. Many sailors stationed overseas take two leaves per year. They take their first two-week leave somewhere near where they are stationed for half the price of a flight home. A week at a foreign resort is fun and adventurous. Their second leave is a trip home.

Most commands rarely approve leave for longer than two weeks at a time, unless there is some really special reason for it.

Comment by lori_proud mom on September 30, 2010 at 10:47pm

Thanks Arwen!! Do you know if they will get leave during that year?

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