Comment

Comment by NF Mom on June 17, 2013 at 3:46pm

The problems with the Moored Training Ships is not new.

I am not sure what now constitutes a large class, and I do not recall what the class sizes were a year ago, and I believe it would not be wise to talk specific numbers, for the safety of our sons and daughters while they are in the fleet.

But I can say that the prototype command will, based on recent history,  adjust the expected qualifications curve if unexpected down time is going to require more months for a class to graduate.  They did that in my son's class and the class before his and behind his.  Adjusting the curve tends to eliminate Sailors becoming DINQ simply because of equipment down time.

The real problem here is potential under-manning on the fleet if unplanned for down times continue over a long period of time.

Talking specific numbers, especially talking class sizes, number of MTS down and for how long, how many months classes were extended, especially if comparing what is happening this year, to last year, to the year before, might be a little more information than we want floating around on the internet.

Comment by NF Mom on June 17, 2013 at 3:01pm

Mark, your historical perspective on this is priceless. Thank-you for taking the time to share.

I found your comment that you remember DINQ being used more in the fleet interesting.

The vast majority of the staff at prototype comes from the fleet, is it possible management by DINQ migrated back from the fleet?

My son, who was only in danger of being DINQ at prototype when he came back from emergency leave, indicated he was constantly urged to pick up the pace to avoid becoming DINQ.

In his case it apparently worked, he completed his oral boards well before graduation, and he is highly motivated to complete his quals early on his boat, and is no longer intimidated by the concept of being DINQ, but he did identify it as the primary staff management tool at prototype.

Comment by William in Nashua on June 17, 2013 at 2:56pm

About orders: My son had already finished all his qualifications several weeks before prototype graduation, and I remember he knew already where he was going before he took the oral boards. He maybe did not get the official orders yet but he knew he had been selected for his particular submarine and where he would be based, I am going to guess a month before graduation day.

About failing at prototype: Yes they do tend to drop people right up until the very end of prototype. Probably a lot more dropped at than you think, because unlike power school where the whole class is together, prototype is split between two locations 1,000 miles apart, then further split into two training units (S8G and MARF for example), and on top of that split up by having different time schedules. Then they split out by ratings too so the ETs work with the ETs etc.

It is possible to become DINQ for so long you can never catch up and they do drop people for it. It is kind of like falling behind on loan payments the interest keeps adding up if you miss a payment even though you start making payments again. The equipment failures don't help any but it is a fact of life they have to deal with. If you were ahead of the curve the whole time you can survive some equipment down time, and still get it all done in the 6 months. Some people also "bomb the test" on their oral boards and if they had been DINQ right up to the end get dropped. They do get one retest.

My son told me before that there were some people with "book learning" as he called it, from Nuclear Power School who had never really learned the material deeply enough to actually use it in practice when it came time to actually do it at prototype. They failed to qualify.

Comment by Mark on June 17, 2013 at 2:14pm

I like susank's answer, but in truth, the official term is "delinquent in qualification".  It was used much more in the fleet than prototype, in my memory.  Shortened, it should probably be spelled "dinq", though the term is rarely used in writing.  Since I've seen it several times over the past few weeks, I want to attempt to correct what I feel is an unhelpful, and false speculation.  It's been expressed a few ways, but basically the idea is that stress is deliberately added to the training pipeline, especially in prototype.  Respectfully, I really don't think this is true.  The process has not changed much in the last thirty or forty years, other than computer technology is used for for administrative stuff - not so much in plant operations, which are trained and performed much the same as they have historically been.  Clearly, there is a lot of stress, but it's there because it is a demanding and exacting field to begin with - deliberately adding artificial stress would be counter-productive and, frankly stupid.  I know it's a fine point, but I don't think the powers that be look for ways to mess with their heads - there is enough of that just by the nature of the work to add to it.  It would not be surprising that some things occur to make it look otherwise, but it's more likely a consequence of trying to keep throughput of trained nucs to the fleet at the needed numbers, using plants that are near the end of their planned life that need more maintenance. 

Comment by mn linda (nuke MM ELT Groton CT) on June 17, 2013 at 2:03pm

DINK to me means 'double income no kids'  :-)

Comment by NancyJo (NNPTC) on June 17, 2013 at 1:03pm

That could describe all of us here.

Comment by susank on June 17, 2013 at 1:01pm

DINK= desperately in need of knowledge

Comment by NancyJo (NNPTC) on June 17, 2013 at 12:27pm

Some of the moms here remember EVERYTHING. My admiration knows no bounds.

Comment by NancyJo (NNPTC) on June 17, 2013 at 12:20pm

My son finished proto almost a year ago and the ol' brain cells don't remember like they used to. It may be, tho, that he did end up taking comps with everybody else in his group. I do know that he completed all the signature stuff in advance of the curve. Sometimes I don't know half what I think I do.

Comment by NancyJo (NNPTC) on June 17, 2013 at 12:03pm

I don't know when my sailor knew he got ELT exactly, but I'm thinking it was about a month before graduation. He finished his Proto stuff in advance of a lot of people but they still kept him busy before ELT started.

When my sailor went to BS, one of their reactors wasn't working and things got major backed up. Our training reactors are kind of old so it isn't surprising. I haven't heard of DINK. Doesn't sound good does it.

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