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Comment by FireTeamLeaderWife aka FTLW on August 19, 2013 at 11:35am

Though I WILL tattle on myself (and LaLa can attest to this) I DID freak out at first! I would post something...delete it and repost without certain info! I just had to learn the rules and get confident.

There wasn't any social media really in 2001...and N4M's is quite unique as far as military support sites.

Comment by FireTeamLeaderWife aka FTLW on August 19, 2013 at 11:32am

Here's a personal note on it. There is OPSEC which must be abided by, but also consider your loved one. You know them best. How much detail about their personal life is okay to put out. It would be different for everyone. What I mean is...in addition to OPSEC their is the respect for my husbands request not to do or say something. Be it operational and especially personal. He is the servicemember and I am really just a civilian. I get some stuff...but empathetically I don't. I did not go through basic training, deployment etc. as a servicemember... I don't have the same "knowing", so I'll trust his judgment call.

When he was deployed the first time HE did not even know where he was going! Seriously, the location was numbers/letters for the location. It was right after 9/11 and things were set up fast...it was a temp camp. The second time we did know. BUT, we make it a personal practice not to tell anyone. Here's why.

I tell my friend the details about where hubby is, when he is coming home etc.. Let's say I see her at Church. She mentions while we are in a Group, posts it on my FB...you get the drift. This is all done in innocence, something like "...betcha can't wait until he gets home. 8:30 on the 3rd on Delta right?..." No intent to do something wrong, in fact she is being considerate. But now OPSEC has been blown...not by her, by me. She doesn't have the mindset, so I (personally) don't like to lay that burden on my friends.

Hubby did not even give me the exact date he was coming home outright...we used code...once he hit American soil.

I go  a little over the top for some people...but that's me. I am a "less is best" kinda gal. If you go to my Profile page on her and you are not my "friend" it will just show the header. Note where I live as well :-) I don't post pics or names...not even first ones. I am a little more secure on here because I decided to stay on and post info for future members...so I have to keep my nose REALLY clean! If I am going to post info about BC and other military info (that is public knowledge) I am responsible for that.

MontanaMom...exactly. Bottom line is...you don't know. Private messages are private but we are on the honor system for that. IF it is violated then the offender should be reported to the site admin so the person can be dealt with.

 This site may be easier to get on,meaning our PIR groups are public as opposed to private FB groups, but the way I see it ANYTHING you post anywhere on the internet is public. Be it double top secret or whatever...again my personal take on it. All you have to do on a secret or closed group is this...highlight, copy paste it somewhere else.

All this does not mean anyone should freak out! I'm a prime example of that! I am super secret and yet I have been on this site for over two years and as you can see post a lot of info...and I have received a lot of support...without posting detailed info about my Sailor (son is the Sailor and Hubby is AF Security Forces).

It is a learn as you go, and we want to help and provide. Knowledge can help with confidence. My other son follows a well known horsemanship clinician and one of his pet sayings is "Frustration begins where knowledge ends."

BTW, I am sure that the admins will take care of the FB postings. I know that there are moms who have been through this that create the FB PIR groups.

Comment by bchis on August 19, 2013 at 11:13am

Definitely not too preachy. I was just asking out of curiosity. I get the whole "what-if" security thing so it's all fine to me.

Comment by BridgetTheBrit (Ship 11/Div 340) on August 19, 2013 at 11:02am

I love checking my email and reading everyone's posts especially the ones that make me laugh :)  bchis, you made my day!

You aren't preachy FTLW, it is good practice and as my husband always (and I mean always) preached, "They can maybe find it out anyway....but why make it easier?"  This is how 'dumb' I am - I didn't find out what my husband actually did in combat in Somalia until the 'gag order' (or whatever it was really called) was lifted about 10 years later!!!  And you know what, I am SO glad that I never knew - I might have shared it, and I sure as heck wouldn't have slept at night. Sometimes knowing IS worse!!!

Comment by FireTeamLeaderWife aka FTLW on August 19, 2013 at 10:57am

BridgetTheBrit - TY for doing that.

BST-21 (Battlestations) dates are not supposed to be posted before the exercise occurs. It's considered "future movement". Yes, I know they are still on base, but RTC wants us to get into practice now for the future of your loved ones military career.

(NOTE - The Community Guidelines will say tha this is okay...it was at the time they were written....in 2008. This was by the original Moderator of the site. We were allowed to post BST-21 schedules. RTC changed this about a year and a half ago.)

Usually anything that is going to occur (the future) is not something to be give specifics about...That's the basics as far as OPSEC (OPerational SECurity). Training, equipment, ports of call for ships, itineraries for deployments(flight times, dates, airlines-this includes your new Sailors when they go to their "A" schools, please don't post that info). Like NavyDad206 said...many times you can't even talk about it afterwards. This usually depends upon the job that you have within the military. I know that even when they are in school that some Sailors cannot even discuss their schooling...again that depends on their rating and the Security Clearance level (if they have one ) for that rating.

As far as calling out names during the ceremony, yet you can't on chat... and the sometimes conflicting info, well...the Navy has been doing this a long time, we haven't (for the most part), so it's their call. They also post the Honor Grads names on their website before PIR. Sometimes you'll see names in newspaper articles, videos etc. The Community Guidelines on this site are going to ask you not to identify that that is your loved one.  Again, their call...and really it is after the fact...like a Ship that is already in port (everyone can see it and knows it's there) as opposed to a specific port it's going to be pulling in on such and such date (future).

So you go over to RTC FB and they have names all over it and they don't get removed...see above LOL. They are moderated by RTC personnel...we are a self moderated site. There is an Admin/moderator. but they cannot possibly handle the magnitude of this whole site. So we have Guidelines and abide by them. Veteran/Alumni/Seasoned (whichever you prefer) stick around to help out.

I haven't had coffee yet and so I hope that made sense and isn't to preachy. Not my intent. OPSEC is a personal "baby" of mine. I have lived, breathed and eaten it for the duration of my marriage and that's probably why :-)

Comment by bchis on August 19, 2013 at 10:15am

Well, there yah go. I'm an open book though. Gave up trying to hide from the system. lol - We can always find me. :/

The wifey won't have to stress it to me. I get it. Secret Mission Impossible Predator Bruce Lee Steven Segal stuff. Check.

Comment by NavyDad206 on August 19, 2013 at 10:06am

Im sure the rules we follow in a PIR group is practice for those new to the military.  Anyone can get on these sites and read the information that is passed.  I too am in the industry and know it takes nothing to find out information about someone if I want.  I know who you are, your name and where your from.  Even a picture of you and your wife, yet none of that is posted on here. 

I think the point they are trying to get across is that when our loved ones do get out in the real military, we do need to be careful of what we say regardless of the medium.  I know every time I was deployed we weren't allowed to say where we were going even after we got back some times.  Its all to keep our military edge.  Even though I wasn't supposed to tell "anyone"  Of course I told my wife and while I knew the importance of secrecy, I did have to stress that to family members.

The last thing we need is people looking to do harm to our country, knowing where our ships and soldiers are headed before they get there.  Hence the saying "Loose lips sink ships."

Comment by bchis on August 19, 2013 at 9:55am

I get the rules and I follow them but I was just curious what the general opinion was on it. Honestly... having been in the network security industry and worked in cyber crime, if someone wanted to get their info, it's only a few minutes and clicks away.   That's why I just thought that it might be 'practice' for OPSEC. I'm fine with it because it doesn't really make a difference. Just curious. :)

Comment by Phoebs on August 19, 2013 at 9:43am

Here is a stupid question! If we are practicing OPSEC, isn't it risking to even message one another?  I don't know for sure who I am talking too!  I know we all had to be excepted into this sight but how are we assured each of us are truely who we say and have SR's in BC?   Just something I have been curious about since I joined.

Comment by bchis on August 19, 2013 at 9:37am

Out of curiosity... when speaking about the secrecy of Battle Stations dates and not wanting to post specific things because of security and protecting the SRs... What exactly does this protect them from?

I've also seen similar rules for the chat room during the live PIR ceremonies. No one is supposed to post names but they are calling names out during the ceremony.

Is this just "practice"... or is there some security risk that I don't understand yet?

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